Bus vs Tram from Hillsborough into City..

One of the points made by an old boss of mine after the trams had been running for maybe a year or two was the difference of quality of travel. Trams are relatively quiet, smooth in operation, spacious, clean, there is a conductor to raise issues with.

Busses are loud, noisy, jerky, frequently overcrowded, dirty and smelly (fumes), and the driver is on his or her own so dealing with issues is not their first concern.

Busses are loud, noisy, jerky, frequently overcrowded, dirty and smelly (fumes), and the driver is on his or her own so dealing with issues is not their first concern.

I'd agree with that. Even if the "issue" is simply buying a ticket, or asking about various tickets and prices, all this can be done while the tram is travelling.

 

We've already seen a tram cut but clothed in the guise of more effective timetabling.

I struggle to see how a timetable which requires more staff, more vehicles and therefore costs more is a cut.

Yes but you are not able to see things from the passenger perspective 5 off peak trams instead of 6 is to most is a cut.

What would be interesting once the bad weather is out of the way is to know punctuality data by the peak and off peak a pity Stagecoach do not publish this on a regular basis as they are forced to do on their rail franchises ( or what is left of them)

Yes but you are not able to see things from the passenger perspective 5 off peak trams instead of 6 is to most is a cut.

 

What would be interesting once the bad weather is out of the way is to know punctuality data by the peak and off peak a pity Stagecoach do not publish this on a regular basis as they are forced to do on their rail franchises ( or what is left of them)

I am a passenger and I know that I much prefer a reliable 12 minute service than a unreliable 10 minute service. Since the new timetable it’s been very rare that any tram I’ve been on has been late.

But then I don’t really like to whinge.

Well that of course begs the question as to wether an 8 minute and 4 minute layover at either end could yield just as punctual services with the 6 an hour restored.

However your experience or mine is not representative of overall punctuality that is why I would like to see the official publication of such data and quite frankly is is beyond belief that the PTE did not have this data to hand to evaluate the proposal to "reduce"the frequency.

I don't suppose you have also noticed that some trams are now leaving stops as much as 2 minutes early - stagecoach say it is not a timetable it is a guide as timings are approximates true one expects such for lateness but I wonder if this interpretation applying to early running is unique in the tram and rail sectors

Well that of course begs the question as to wether an 8 minute and 4 minute layover at either end could yield just as punctual services with the 6 an hour restored.

 

However your experience or mine is not representative of overall punctuality that is why I would like to see the official publication of such data and quite frankly is is beyond belief that the PTE did not have this data to hand to evaluate the proposal to "reduce"the frequency.

 

I don't suppose you have also noticed that some trams are now leaving stops as much as 2 minutes early - stagecoach say it is not a timetable it is a guide as timings are approximates true one expects such for lateness but I wonder if this interpretation applying to early running is unique in the tram and rail sectors

I am fairly sure that the information will be gathered. The question is why is it not being published?

As for the 2 minutes early? All I can say is that if it were a bus under the guidelines laid down by the traffic commissioners it would be deemed to have not run.

Yes bus driver1 I agree completely that the info should be available and I suspect the PTE and or stagecoach do not want it published. If the PTE were not lying when they refused to make it available under FOI then it really makes one wonder about how the franchise is managed. This is the most basic of transport management information and such info would form the basis of any analysis to alter the timetable (along with other more detailed info analysing the timings at problems points).

To be fair to stagecoach I suspect the early running is more down to the fact that the trams have been given more time for the journey and in some cases do not need it and stagecoach had not anticipated this. However their view the that a timetable is not a timetable is somewhat strange.

I've noticed a few times that the tram sets off early from the Middlewood terminus.

What's the point of all the journey planners and so on if the tram leaves 30 seconds before you arrive, when you should have had ample spare time...

I asked stagecoach about this as I know almost to the second how long it takes me to get to the tram stop and kept seeing the tram depart and more than once the doors being shut in front of me. I was told they are allowed to leave up to a minute early, and also they use "Stagecoach time" not what is shown on the dot matrix and not GMT.

Even worse to see the tram leaving early with the tram link bus drawing up

People wonder why I am not a fan of stagecoach and it is this sort of lack of a customer focus that is shown all the time

I use the tram daily to and from work as it's more convenient for my journey from Langsett to West Street. What concerns me is the is the way passengers are packed in like sardines-some mornings I get touched in areas that haven't seen the light of day for years! Ares there any restriction on passenger numbers like the busses? Seriously it's quite concerning what would happen if there was an accident. With all the fare dodging enabled by conductors failing to reach or monitor boarding customers it would surely pay to increase the number of trams operating at peak times

I use the tram daily to and from work as it's more convenient for my journey from Langsett to West Street. What concerns me is the is the way passengers are packed in like sardines-some mornings I get touched in areas that haven't seen the light of day for years! Ares there any restriction on passenger numbers like the busses? Seriously it's quite concerning what would happen if there was an accident. With all the fare dodging enabled by conductors failing to reach or monitor boarding customers it would surely pay to increase the number of trams operating at peak times

What you mean run the service for the benefit of passengers!

Stagecoach have the concession to run the service to 2024 and it hard to see them investing in extra capacity so I guess that would be down to the PTE

On the main railway there is a measure called passengers in excess of capacity and this is monitored and reported but as far as I am aware no operator has ever suffered financial penalties. Here on Northern with the old franchise the overcrowding was a direct result in the franchise being awarded by the government on the basis of no growth so as passenger numbers increased so did overcrowding as no new trains could be provided. Mad but true