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15-05-2018, 20:05   #4541
hackey lad
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Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
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When times are good I think you're probably right. But since the crash (and so called 'austerity' things have changed.

There have been too many iniquitous cuts, that mainly affect the already poor and have been a disaster for others, resulting in homelessness, foodbanks, the disabled being penalised etc. Wages for many have stagnated or dropped and costs have gone up so more people are struggling and being sucked down to the poorer end of the scale. Meanwhile the wealthy have been protected, and some, especially the already seriously rich (who already have more than they need) have benefitted and become a lot richer. In normal times nobody would care much, but the sheer unfairness of it has become stark and people resent it.

This imbalance between both ends of society needs to be rectified to what it was, and it seems only the current Labour party are prepared to do it.
Anna , I admire your dedication but how would they do it ?
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16-05-2018, 09:53   #4542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
[/B]
When times are good I think you're probably right. But since the crash (and so called 'austerity' things have changed.

There have been too many iniquitous cuts, that mainly affect the already poor and have been a disaster for others, resulting in homelessness, foodbanks, the disabled being penalised etc. Wages for many have stagnated or dropped and costs have gone up so more people are struggling and being sucked down to the poorer end of the scale. Meanwhile the wealthy have been protected, and some, especially the already seriously rich (who already have more than they need) have benefitted and become a lot richer. In normal times nobody would care much, but the sheer unfairness of it has become stark and people resent it.

This imbalance between both ends of society needs to be rectified to what it was, and it seems only the current Labour party are prepared to do it.
The thing is that many of these things were prevalent under Labour too. Its not a sudden post-2010 invention.

Perhaps its because its been such a very long time since a prosperous Labour period (long before Brown and the Bush-Blair wars), people are looking back with rose tinted specs?
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16-05-2018, 09:55   #4543
Obelix
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Perhaps its because its been such a very long time since a prosperous Labour period (long before Brown and the Bush-Blair wars), people are looking back with rose tinted specs?
OK when were we in a "prospering" Labour period that didn't end in a huge crash and massive inflation or other economic woes?
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16-05-2018, 12:16   #4544
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The problem with the government is how we constantly ping pong from left to right, so we never reach a functional middle ground. This is sadly the nature of first past the post politics.

That said, the current Labour Party are left of center not far left as the media like to portray. So they do stand a chance of improving things, if people vote them in and keep them there long enough to actually do it.

The trouble is the past has shown that if they do, eventually the right will get voted in again and repeat the same problems.
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17-05-2018, 02:34   #4545
Anna B
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Originally Posted by hackey lad View Post
Anna , I admire your dedication but how would they do it ?
They could start by getting the seriously rich / Corporations etc to pay their fair share of taxes properly. That alone would fund it - if they can collect it.
Unfortunately when dealing with the rich and powerful, they have systematically rigged the system in their favour, and none of the current government has the will to change it.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...george-monbiot
Jeremy Corbyn has said he will make this a priority, and I believe he will.

He also wants to start a National Investment Bank. (Quantatitive easing for the people.) Cutting out the middle man (the Banks) scares the **** out of them. It doesn't fit into their agenda at all, they would lose their stranglehold, but sound economic minds think it would work. Read this: ,
http://www.primeeconomics.org/articl...-fiscal-policy
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17-05-2018, 09:50   #4546
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They could start by getting the seriously rich / Corporations etc to pay their fair share of taxes properly.
Ah we are back onto the nebulous rich then...

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?
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17-05-2018, 11:04   #4547
Anna B
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Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
Ah we are back onto the nebulous rich then...

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?
There is nothing nebulous about the 1% rich who will own two thirds of the world's wealth by 2030.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ing-point-2030
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17-05-2018, 11:17   #4548
Obelix
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Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
There is nothing nebulous about the 1% rich who will own two thirds of the world's wealth by 2030.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ing-point-2030
Ah we are back onto the nebulous rich then...

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?

How much of the UK is in that 1%. It'd surprise you.... Want to make a guess what I make and where my taxes go?
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17-05-2018, 11:31   #4549
Anna B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
Ah we are back onto the nebulous rich then...

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?

How much of the UK is in that 1%. It'd surprise you.... Want to make a guess what I make and where my taxes go?
I pay my tax, and am happy to do so. Fair taxation is part of a civilised, well run society. The super rich (including mega Corporations,) should pay their's and not employ an army of accountants to avoid / evade it.
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17-05-2018, 11:58   #4550
Obelix
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I pay my tax
I'm sure you do. As do I.

I;ve removed the rest as you are just grandstanding now. I've asked the question several times now and you have avoided it. Thats because all you want is a soapbox to rail against perviced injustice as you see it. That's not debate, that's not healthy or beneficial to anything - it's just an angry person standing on a soapbox shouting inanities into the air.

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?

How much of the UK is in that 1%. It'd surprise you.... Want to make a guess what I make and where my taxes go?
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Looks like Farage wants a second referendum... is he worried he's insecure...?

Last edited by Obelix; 17-05-2018 at 12:27.
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17-05-2018, 12:47   #4551
Anna B
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Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
I'm sure you do. As do I.

I;ve removed the rest as you are just grandstanding now. I've asked the question several times now and you have avoided it. Thats because all you want is a soapbox to rail against perviced injustice as you see it. Thats not debate, thats not health - it's just an angry person standing ona soapbox shouting inanities into the air.

How much in tax do you think they pay? How much do you think they earn?

How much of the UK is in that 1%. It'd surprise you.... Want to make a guess what I make and where my taxes go?


How would I know? However paying a lot of tax is simply indicative of great wealth, so what? You can come up with a huge figure if you like, but I could simply come back with an even greater figure of their wealth / income. It's usually in amounts that ordinary people can't even comprehend. How much money does one person need? Do the super rich ever have enough?

I guess you are going to say that many of the people in the UK come into the 1%, and indeed in a world that is predominantly poor that is not surprising, I am grateful. (However go to the 0.1% and do the wealth ratio and it increases exponentially.) But in a relatively rich country we too have our very poor and desperate, and the figure is growing. Why should a homeless person in this country not deserve the same sympathy we would give to a poor person anywhere else? Several countries that are very poor also have obscenely wealthy people. What they don't have is an efficient and honest tax system. I worry that our tax system is following suit.

I don't know what you earn or where your taxes go. Do you want t tell me?

Last edited by Anna B; 17-05-2018 at 12:52.
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17-05-2018, 12:50   #4552
truman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
[/B]

How would I know??
Yet you're suggesting they don't pay their fair share? If you don't know how much they pay how do you know whether it's a "fair share" or not? Genuine questions Anna
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17-05-2018, 12:54   #4553
Obelix
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Originally Posted by Anna B View Post

I don't know what you earn or where your taxes go. Do you want t tell me?
If you are not willing to critically think about what the numbers may mean then you are just jumping on the bandwagon and grandstanding as I've said...

How about a little critical thinking on what that might me then. I'll give you some numbers.

Last month I billed two clients for work. One of these is billed daily at a day rate of £575 a day. Thats generally how the work has been for them for the last six months and will carry on for another nine months. Bearing in mind I only get to bill them for days worked so no BH etc.

Second client is an hourly rate as and when needed. They get billed at £70 an hour in quarter hour increments. I suspect I average about 30 hours a month to them.

So, thats money coming into my limited company. I'm the sole shareholder. Now make a guess at what amount I make and the tax I pay. I well inside that 1% you harp on about - lets see what you know about it. I make use of all the legal ways there are of avoiding tax so lets see what you think.

---------- Post added 17-05-2018 at 12:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by truman View Post
Yet you're suggesting they don't pay their fair share? If you don't know how much they pay how do you know whether it's a "fair share" or not? Genuine questions Anna
Details are above... Want to have a go yourself? I suspect this could be interesting....

---------- Post added 17-05-2018 at 19:43 ----------

......tumbleweed from Anna....
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17-05-2018, 21:41   #4554
hackey lad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
They could start by getting the seriously rich / Corporations etc to pay their fair share of taxes properly. That alone would fund it - if they can collect it.
Unfortunately when dealing with the rich and powerful, they have systematically rigged the system in their favour, and none of the current government has the will to change it.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...george-monbiot
Jeremy Corbyn has said he will make this a priority, and I believe he will.

He also wants to start a National Investment Bank. (Quantatitive easing for the people.) Cutting out the middle man (the Banks) scares the **** out of them. It doesn't fit into their agenda at all, they would lose their stranglehold, but sound economic minds think it would work. Read this: ,
http://www.primeeconomics.org/articl...-fiscal-policy
Ah the old labour trick of higher taxation , what next , borrowing money for their schemes ?
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17-05-2018, 22:19   #4555
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
They could start by getting the seriously rich / Corporations etc to pay their fair share of taxes properly. That alone would fund it - if they can collect it.
Unfortunately when dealing with the rich and powerful, they have systematically rigged the system in their favour, and none of the current government has the will to change it.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...george-monbiot
Jeremy Corbyn has said he will make this a priority, and I believe he will.

He also wants to start a National Investment Bank. (Quantatitive easing for the people.) Cutting out the middle man (the Banks) scares the **** out of them. It doesn't fit into their agenda at all, they would lose their stranglehold, but sound economic minds think it would work. Read this: ,
http://www.primeeconomics.org/articl...-fiscal-policy
Worked really well in France didn't it..
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19-05-2018, 21:57   #4556
ENG601PM
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Latest polling has Theresa May as preferred PM with Don't Know in second place, with Jeremy Corbyn coming third in the two horse race.

Labour should be crushing it against May's hapless government, which just goes to show how utterly awful most people's think Corbyn would be as PM. It's time to get rid of him before Labour end up in the wilderness for another decade.
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19-05-2018, 22:06   #4557
Mister Gee
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Keep the faith folks, lots of Tory trolls about.
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19-05-2018, 23:13   #4558
hackey lad
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Keep the faith folks, lots of Tory trolls about.
Labour have no chance with their current leader
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20-05-2018, 07:08   #4559
blake
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What Labour needs is a John Smith moment.

But unfortunately, despite being a Hamas sympathiser, Jeremy Corbyn doesn't eat enough kebabs.
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20-05-2018, 08:03   #4560
Calahonda
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Originally Posted by Mister Gee View Post
Keep the faith folks, lots of Tory trolls about.

What a ridiculous post.

---------- Post added 20-05-2018 at 08:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
What Labour needs is a John Smith moment.

But unfortunately, despite being a Hamas sympathiser, Jeremy Corbyn doesn't eat enough kebabs.
A leader/pm with a sense of humour would be a good start, folk respond to personalities, something both May and Corbyn are devoid of. Labour continues to be the anti Tory party, whilst the Tories appear to have gone backwards, I’m beginning to fear that May thinks that she is Churchill when dealing with the leaders of other nations.

Nowt we can do, we’re stuck with a far right government and a far left opposition, with bog all in the middle, Vince Cable couldn’t run a tap, let alone a political party, woe are us.
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