The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

I don't know but I can give you some working out. We do know that the UK governments would have been able to provide state aid to the Sheffield steelworks, coal and coke mines which went out of business, putting tend of thousands of Sheffield men and women on the dole. But they couldn't, because EU law made it illegal.

 

So, who knows how it might have been. The question though, is HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC?

 

Your turn. Has it? Let's see your working out.

http://www.northeastlabour.eu/confirmation-uk-government-could-have-saved-steelworks

UK Government could have given state aid support to Redcar steelworks. In response to a written question from Euro MP for the North East Jude Kirton-Darling they state there are a wide range of reasons that state aid can be given to industries. The Redcar plant stopped production in September in a move which has devastated workers and the whole community. There were calls for the UK Government to act to support the steelworks but no help was provided.

Since the financial crisis in 2008 there has been less demand for steel across Europe. In addition, lower demand elsewhere has led to steel being ‘dumped’ at low prices into the European market. This has led to a loss of 40 million tonnes of production across the EU and a loss of 60,000 direct jobs and 100,000 indirect jobs. The environmental impact is also significant as we are now importing steel produced in less environmentally friendly plants and shipped around the world.

The European Commission has stated that support could have been given to the plant for research and development, to develop innovation, to support training and employment or protect and enhance the environment. Research by Jude Kirton-Darling, Labour Member of the European Parliament for the North East has shown that other European Governments are taking up the option of providing state aid to their steel industry. Steelworks have been supported in Italy, France and Germany to help deal with the drop in the steel price and to increase the sustainability of the sector.

Jude Kirton-Darling said “This response from the Commission shows what we’ve known all along, that the UK Government has used European state aid rules as an excuse for doing nothing to support the steel industry. The steel industry is important in its own right but is key to our wider manufacturing sector. It provides high skilled and well paid jobs and as we’ve seen in Redcar the loss of a plant has a massive impact on the regional economy.

Notes:

Review of support provided to the steel industry by other EU Governments

Support for the steel industry: examples from other EU countries

Europe's steel industry is in deep crisis. The UK government has insisted that it is unable to intervene to support UK steel as a result of EU rules. However, other European countries support their foundation industries within the rules because they believe they are so strategically important to their general manufacturing base. If a complaint is launched against national or regional action, EU state aid rules are restrictive but not prohibitive. It is possible to gain approval. This may be qualified for a specific reason beyond simply supporting the industry, relating to environmental or public health concerns, the investment in R&D or training, which would be lost with the closure of a works (see EU presentation to May 2015 OECD steel meeting: http://www.oecd.org/sti/ind/Item%203c_3-%20EU_OECD-Steel.pdf Labour MEPs are currently calling for a review of state aid rules to allow regional cohesion and employment to factor in the Commission's criteria.

No. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/07/european-union-import-duties-chinese-steel-port-talbot-tata

Actually Yes!

It looks like either we changed our minds after the referendum result.

HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC?

Anyone?

HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC?

 

Anyone?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/12108408/Steel-crisis-brings-100-job-cuts-at-Sheffield-Forgemasters.html

In 2010, the coalition government scrapped an £80m loan to fund Sheffield Forgemasters' expansion into nuclear power parts, only to reverse its stance and lay out a £36m support package a year later – an offer that was later refused.

The city of Sheffield, once the cradle of Britain’s steel industry, has suffered from a steep decline in the industry. Tata, which bought the remnants of British Steel when it took over Corus in 2007, recently cut hundreds of jobs at its Stocksdale plant in West Yorkshire.

Sheffield Forgemasters’ decision comes days after Tata Steel UK announced more than 1,000 job cuts in the Welsh town of Port Talbot, the UK’s biggest steelworks, to try to stem losses of about £1m a week.

About 5,000 jobs have been lost from British steel in recent months, through the closure of the Redcar steelworks by its Thai owners SSI, job cuts at the Tata plant in Scunthorpe and the mothballing of two sites in Scotland.

Steelmakers have blamed the strong pound, fierce competition from cheap Chinese imports and high energy costs for their woes.

I don't know but I can give you some working out. We do know that the UK governments would have been able to provide state aid to the Sheffield steelworks, coal and coke mines which went out of business, putting tend of thousands of Sheffield men and women on the dole. But they couldn't, because EU law made it illegal.

 

So, who knows how it might have been. The question though, is HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC?

 

Your turn. Has it? Let's see your working out.

Do you think thatcher or Blair for that matter given state aid to steel works and coal mines?

South Yorkshire has done better by being part of the eu.

So, for example, the effects of the European Coal and Steel Community on production and resources along with the inability of UK governments to subsidise local industries due to EU treaties and continental protectionism...

 

Too much for post priandal consideration?

 

 

OK, let's make it easier. Is the city centre nicer now?

Are you suggesting that the Conservative Party would not have abused the resources of the state to vindictively destroy the industries which formed the unionised support of their major opposition, and would have happily subsidised the workers in those industries if we hadn’t been in the EU?

HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC?

 

Anyone?

Unless you live in a parallel universe (which is up for debate), you/we will never know.

Without the bailouts of Europe for the regeneration of the city in the post coal/steel years (which were coming anyway) would we be better or worse off?

I think worse off - you will disagree - but we DON'T KNOW - we CANNOT know.

We can all opine, but that leads us down the track of suggesting that we will have been be better off if we follow an unknown track - the important word is unknown.

Only hindsight is 20:20 - the rest is conjecture, assumption and make believe.

That last sentence just about sums up this thread

Something from facebook, Poland has lowered its retirement age from 67 to 60, for both men and women.

The Polish economy is growing at a rate of 5%, the UK economy is growing at an unsteady 2%; but the UK economy isn't doing poorly because of the EU, its doing poorly because of poor UK Governments.

That last sentence just about sums up this thread

And if the worst scenarios materialise our economy is toast.

Why gamble with an entire economy in this way?

Unless you live in a parallel universe (which is up for debate), you/we will never know.

 

Only hindsight is 20:20 - the rest is conjecture, assumption and make believe.

You must be a scientist, not a student of English. It's still such a very simple question but I'll take out the part that's twisting your melon.

HAS Sheffield done better or worse since 1973?

Now try.

Only hindsight is 20:20 - the rest is conjecture, assumption and make believe.

You must be a scientist, not a student of English. It's still such a very simple question but I'll take out the part that's twisting your melon.

 

HAS Sheffield done better or worse since 1973?

 

Now try.

 

 

 

I'll save that one for a day when you need reminding about leaving the EU.

You’re asking the wrong question.

Will Sheffield do better when we leave?

What about where you live?