''The war on men''

The real world, or Sheffield anyway, probably employs more people in education (schools, colleges, 2 universities)

A sector majorly run by and for women. Perhaps men should complain more about education discrimination to get things evened up.

They've been legally entitled to the same pay for about 50 years. It still doesn't always happen in practice though.

It doesn't happen with all men either, companies will find ways to award on merit etc, it's not just discrimination against women in workplaces that try it on or work round it.

Awarding on merit is perfectly legal, discrimination on gender isn't.

---------- Post added 18-02-2018 at 12:48 ----------

A sector majorly run by and for women. Perhaps men should complain more about education discrimination to get things evened up.

Until you look at the higher level positions, head teachers for example;

https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2015/feb/11/lack-of-female-headteachers-gender-diversity-education

the overall proportion of women taking on headteacher positions is not reflected by the number of women in the workforce. A government report on the school workforce in England, issued last year, showed that the state education sector is 74% female, yet only 65% of headteachers are women.

 

“In my own experience of applying for a headteacher role, governors overtly believed that a man would be a better because he would be tougher and more respected by students,” said Wendy Baxter, headteacher at Meadstead primary academy.

 

“I found myself the only woman in a shortlist of nine, and believe I was there only because I was already doing the role as interim head. There were over 50 applicants, so I don’t think the male-dominated shortlist was down to chance.”

 

For other women, they found that they encountered judgement and came up against barriers that simply didn’t exist for the male candidates.

Systemic discrimination.

Awarding on merit is perfectly legal, discrimination on gender isn't.

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2018 at 12:48 ----------

 

 

Until you look at the higher level positions, head teachers for example;

https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2015/feb/11/lack-of-female-headteachers-gender-diversity-education

 

 

 

Systemic discrimination.

Three quarters of teachers are women. The majority of students are women. The patriarchy excuse doesn't wash any more. Women make different life choices which lead to different outcomes.

Get with the reality of your first sentence - highlighted in case you can't find it in the fog of masculine doubt.

So if your wife is getting suggestive comments at work she should put up? Felt up at work "it's just banter after all" she should just put up? Less wages than the bloke next to her? "Whatever darlin' mek us a cup of tea".

 

Good lord.

I honestly have not a clue what you are talking about. I have never said a word about women or men for that matter having to put up with anything. Why should they?

Awarding on merit is perfectly legal, discrimination on gender isn't.

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2018 at 12:48 ----------

 

 

Until you look at the higher level positions, head teachers for example;

https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2015/feb/11/lack-of-female-headteachers-gender-diversity-education

 

 

 

Systemic discrimination.

So when is it clear that a woman is being paid less because of her gender and not because of her performance ?

Do women tend to take more days off sick ?

Do women tend to ask for more flexible work patterns ?

Without looking for any data I would take a guess at the answer to both being yes, in which case they may be viewed as less critical to business needs ..... merit !

So when is it clear that a woman is being paid less because of her gender and not because of her performance ?

Do women tend to take more days off sick ?

Do women tend to ask for more flexible work patterns ?

Without looking for any data I would take a guess at the answer to both being yes, in which case they may be viewed as less critical to business needs ..... merit !

Let's not even mention the armed forces. How many women make it to the front line in combat?

So when is it clear that a woman is being paid less because of her gender and not because of her performance ?

Do women tend to take more days off sick ?

Do women tend to ask for more flexible work patterns ?

Without looking for any data I would take a guess at the answer to both being yes, in which case they may be viewed as less critical to business needs ..... merit !

If flexible working patterns are family related, then that is still gender related isn't it. Women are also more likely to have maternity leave (despite it being possible for me to share it now), but again that is gender related.

If women are overlooked in favour of men for roles due to anything except qualifications or merit then it's discrimination. And attitudes like yours amongst hiring people still exist, so WITHOUT DATA they make unwarranted and probably illegal assumptions that lead to discrimination.

It's very difficult to prove of course, hence why it still happens.

---------- Post added 19-02-2018 at 07:33 ----------

Three quarters of teachers are women. The majority of students are women. The patriarchy excuse doesn't wash any more. Women make different life choices which lead to different outcomes.

 

Get with the reality of your first sentence - highlighted in case you can't find it in the fog of masculine doubt.

You didn't even try to explain why in a profession that is >60% women, why the management layer of head teachers are >60% men.

 

You didn't even try to explain why in a profession that is >60% women, why the management layer of head teachers are >60% men.

You didn't even try to read the part that said "Women make different life choices which lead to different outcomes. "

If flexible working patterns are family related, then that is still gender related isn't it. Women are also more likely to have maternity leave (despite it being possible for me to share it now), but again that is gender related.

If women are overlooked in favour of men for roles due to anything except qualifications or merit then it's discrimination. And attitudes like yours amongst hiring people still exist, so WITHOUT DATA they make unwarranted and probably illegal assumptions that lead to discrimination.

It's very difficult to prove of course, hence why it still happens.

 

---------- Post added 19-02-2018 at 07:33 ----------

 

 

You didn't even try to explain why in a profession that is >60% women, why the management layer of head teachers are >60% men.

Attitudes like mine eh, your being far too simplistic, I mentioned sickness and flexible work patterns not maternity.

I don't know what sort of organisations your familiar with and how they pay their personnel but I will give you a scenario which is not uncommon:

Regardless of gender, It's pay review time,

Person A and person B do the same job and are paid the same hourly rate

Person A regularly does the extra hours when required, hits targets and has little or no sickness.

Person B does not commit to as much overtime (may have good reason) struggles with targets and has half a dozen sick days in the year.

Person A is rewarded on merit a 5% pay increase

Person B is rewarded on merit a 3% pay increase

Now answer the following:

Do you have a problem with that if A and B are both male or both female ?

Do you have a problem with that if A is male and B is female ?

Do you have a problem with that if A is female and B is male ?

You see what will happen to their rates of pay if the pattern continues over several years !

I personally declare war on men.....

Come on ladies! We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Jobs, we shall fight in the pubs and football stadiums, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in our hair, we shall defend our rights, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight in the home, we shall fight on the landing (outside the toilet), we shall fight in the garden and in the streets, we shall fight in the kitchen; we shall never surrender

Love you really men

In the news yesterday

findings from the YouGov survey of small, medium and large firms included:

 

46% of employers agreed it was reasonable to ask women if they have young children during the recruitment process

44% agree women should work for an organisation for at least a year before deciding to have children

About one third believe that women who become pregnant and new mothers in work are "generally less interested in career progression"

41% of employers agreed that pregnancy in the workplace puts "an unnecessary cost burden" on the workplace

51% agree there is sometimes resentment towards women who are pregnant or on maternity leave

The EHRC said its survey revealed antiquated beliefs, including two out of five employers saying women who have had more than one child while in the same job can be a "burden" to their team.

---------- Post added 20-02-2018 at 10:58 ----------

Attitudes like mine eh, your being far too simplistic, I mentioned sickness and flexible work patterns not maternity.

I don't know what sort of organisations your familiar with and how they pay their personnel but I will give you a scenario which is not uncommon:

 

Regardless of gender, It's pay review time,

Person A and person B do the same job and are paid the same hourly rate

Person A regularly does the extra hours when required, hits targets and has little or no sickness.

Person B does not commit to as much overtime (may have good reason) struggles with targets and has half a dozen sick days in the year.

Person A is rewarded on merit a 5% pay increase

Person B is rewarded on merit a 3% pay increase

 

Now answer the following:

Do you have a problem with that if A and B are both male or both female ?

Do you have a problem with that if A is male and B is female ?

Do you have a problem with that if A is female and B is male ?

You see what will happen to their rates of pay if the pattern continues over several years !

As you've stated it it appears to be entirely on merit and I can't see any reason it would be discriminatory, gender appears on the face of it to be irrelevant.

I'm not sure that amount of overtime done should be a basis for a payrise myself, the overtime is already paid, it doesn't require additional compensation on top of that. But perhaps it shows greater commitment and a willingness to go a bit extra when the company needs it. (But perhaps it shows that the company is understaffed and mismanaged and needs to hire more people).