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17-03-2018, 02:00   #121
amnicoll
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Originally Posted by Hook View Post
Because they were being tested and commissioned and before they were ready to enter passenger services changed needed to be made before they could be used in passenger service.

This is part of the whole point of it being a trial. How is this so hard to understand?
Very easy but the question is why did it take a year longer than planned
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17-03-2018, 11:28   #122
Hook
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Originally Posted by amnicoll View Post
Very easy but the question is why did it take a year longer than planned
Because there were more issues than originally envisaged.
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17-03-2018, 12:21   #123
amnicoll
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Doesn't reflect well on the procurement and manufacturing. I am not aware of any new trains taking 18 months from delivery to first passenger use in the UK for running on existing infrastructure. Perhaps an unwanted record for Sheffield
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17-03-2018, 15:40   #124
Annie Bynnol
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Originally Posted by amnicoll View Post
Doesn't reflect well on the procurement and manufacturing. I am not aware of any new trains taking 18 months from delivery to first passenger use in the UK for running on existing infrastructure. Perhaps an unwanted record for Sheffield
Perhaps not-
There are plenty of examples of "...new trains taking 18 months from delivery to first passenger use in the UK for running on existing infrastructure.".
But assuming you meant either trams or tram-trains, just a tiny bit of research would flag up the failings of the Manchester and Edinburgh trams and their operation.

Another clue is in the name tram-train.
Tram-trains are still tram-trains when operating on Supertram routes and need authorisation to be used in public service. No other system in the UK uses tram-trains, no other system has introduced tram-trains and no other tra-train have been evaluated for safety.
All the tram trains will have gone through evaluation and modification.

Strengthening the fleet of trams with three tram-trains is not the same as having three more vehicles running around increasing frequency.

Tram-trains on delivery were not capable of "...running on existing infrastructure."

That's why it is a trial of the tram-train principle and not three extra trams.
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17-03-2018, 19:47   #125
Hook
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Originally Posted by amnicoll View Post
Doesn't reflect well on the procurement and manufacturing. I am not aware of any new trains taking 18 months from delivery to first passenger use in the UK for running on existing infrastructure. Perhaps an unwanted record for Sheffield
Do you have a problem making links between information you are given?

I have previously said:
A) Part of the trial is that the Stadler vehicles were an off the shelf solution, rather than specifically designed for the Supertram network as the original
Tram were. This is something the trial is examining as to how effective and appropriate a solution that is.
B) The testing period took longer than expected.

Therefore perhaps one of the outcomes of the TRIAL will be that vehicles need to be specifically designed for a specific network. Therefore an element of the trial has been successful.

And in answer to your supposition itís typical in the rail industry to have a commissioning period in the region of 36 months.
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17-03-2018, 22:52   #126
Arthur Ritus
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I don't know much about it all but how long did it take this tram to function on the new rails?
https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/f...1258848967.jpg

That power unit must have taken some adapting.
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18-03-2018, 02:42   #127
amnicoll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook View Post
Do you have a problem making links between information you are given?

I have previously said:
A) Part of the trial is that the Stadler vehicles were an off the shelf solution, rather than specifically designed for the Supertram network as the original
Tram were. This is something the trial is examining as to how effective and appropriate a solution that is.
B) The testing period took longer than expected.

Therefore perhaps one of the outcomes of the TRIAL will be that vehicles need to be specifically designed for a specific network. Therefore an element of the trial has been successful.

And in answer to your supposition itís typical in the rail industry to have a commissioning period in the region of 36 months.
I would have thought it obvious that something like this would have needed to be designed for the network they are designed to run on.


A commissioning period of 36 months perhaps but not 18 months from commencement of delivery to running in service - true they may be phased in

By all means provide me with a list of the recent train deliveries that have had a delay of 18 months from delivery to in service running/testing. Greater Anglia announced in April 2017 they would be buying brand new trains to be introduced in 2019 /2020 into service for instance. I think you are again confusing the the whole purchase process with the process from delivery to in service.

One thing is certain it is going to be interesting to see what happens when they get out on to Network Rail territory
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18-03-2018, 13:51   #128
Annie Bynnol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnicoll View Post
I would have thought it obvious that something like this would have needed to be designed for the network they are designed to run on.


A commissioning period of 36 months perhaps but not 18 months from commencement of delivery to running in service - true they may be phased in

By all means provide me with a list of the recent train deliveries that have had a delay of 18 months from delivery to in service running/testing. Greater Anglia announced in April 2017 they would be buying brand new trains to be introduced in 2019 /2020 into service for instance. I think you are again confusing the the whole purchase process with the process from delivery to in service.

One thing is certain it is going to be interesting to see what happens when they get out on to Network Rail territory
It is a trial and no contracts exist for the use of the tram-trains after the trial.They are not trams, they are all tram-trains with different operational characteristics to trams.
They were not "commissioned" for Supertram routes, they were "commissioned" tor a pilot study/project/trial to operate on Supertram tracks and Network Rail tracks.
Beyond a successful trial period a service four tram-trains would be required to maintain the Cathedral to Parkgate and three would be available to strengthen the current ageing fleet.
Until the trial is complete and a decision made about its future Stagecoach Supertram cannot rely on the availability of the tram-trains. They might not want them.

Examples of problems include the new Blackpool trams of the '50s, Edinburgh trams of the '00s to the current Class 700 and 800 and variations and late agreements on conversions.
Greater Anglia will still not be able to operate its new electrics in a full service to Cambridge North or Kings Lynn.
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18-03-2018, 14:42   #129
amnicoll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol View Post
It is a trial and no contracts exist for the use of the tram-trains after the trial.They are not trams, they are all tram-trains with different operational characteristics to trams.
They were not "commissioned" for Supertram routes, they were "commissioned" tor a pilot study/project/trial to operate on Supertram tracks and Network Rail tracks.
Beyond a successful trial period a service four tram-trains would be required to maintain the Cathedral to Parkgate and three would be available to strengthen the current ageing fleet.
Until the trial is complete and a decision made about its future Stagecoach Supertram cannot rely on the availability of the tram-trains. They might not want them.

Examples of problems include the new Blackpool trams of the '50s, Edinburgh trams of the '00s to the current Class 700 and 800 and variations and late agreements on conversions.
Greater Anglia will still not be able to operate its new electrics in a full service to Cambridge North or Kings Lynn.
Is not the trial for two years and the contract for the trams five?

The big problem for Edinburgh was the track if I recal there was a discussion about testing the trams in Croydon whilst they were waiting for track. Too young to remember Blackpool but one might have hoped that if there were problems then someone might have learnt the lessons 60 years later.

It is well known that if the spec keeps changing then problems arise have a word with the defence department for example after example.

Given the Greater Anglia is still a few years off then whilst surprising they would seem to be aware that something has gone wrong and not found out at the last minute they had bought something unfit for purpose. I am not aware with the problems there - is it that once again network rail have failed to deliver their side of the bargain or a problem in the original spec.

As I said I find it hard to believe that any one would have bought trams that were not at least designed to work on the existing tram network after all 3 of them were purchased to strengthen the service - true having more will provide cover for failures of the 4 on the Rotherham service

The concept of trams is great but based on this who would be advocating any extension to the network here. Perhaps with the Northern Powerhouse GMT might be bought in to show what can be done- no Don't take that as a serious suggestion but they do at least seem to have both vision and a degree of competency lacking here in Sheffield
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02-04-2018, 13:58   #130
GleadlessLad
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So... a bit of snow last night & yet again our Supertram system lets the public down.

I can understand the delays caused by the First Bus which became stuck on Park Grange Rd, however the rest of today's issues are depressingly familiar -

Failure of the points at Gleadless Townend (again) leading to temporary suspension of the service to Herdings Park - this seems to have happened every time it's snowed this winter.

Flooding at Spring Lane (again) causing delays. Another regular issue which hasn't been resolved.

Inevitably, another tram failure - this time at Tinsley, leading to temporary suspension of the service through to Meadowhall.

Hardly a shining advertisement for public transport!
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02-04-2018, 14:07   #131
mrmw
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Originally Posted by GleadlessLad View Post
So... a bit of snow last night & yet again our Supertram system lets the public down.

Can’t be much of that axe left that you’re constantly grinding now eh.


I can understand the delays caused by the First Bus which became stuck on Park Grange Rd, however the rest of today's issues are depressingly familiar -

Failure of the points at Gleadless Townend (again) leading to temporary suspension of the service to Herdings Park - this seems to have happened every time it's snowed this winter.

How many points have failed on national rail network today?

Flooding at Spring Lane (again) causing delays. Another regular issue which hasn't been resolved.

Flooding is the trams fault how?

Inevitably, another tram failure - this time at Tinsley, leading to temporary suspension of the service through to Meadowhall.

How many buses and cars broke down today?

Hardly a shining advertisement for public transport!
How’s about you write a factual post showing accurate comparisons of how many buses and regional trains were cancelled, broke down or late

You might have a shred of credibility then
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02-04-2018, 14:15   #132
apelike
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Originally Posted by GleadlessLad View Post
every time it's snowed this winter.

Flooding at Spring Lane (again) causing delays. Another regular issue which hasn't been resolved.
It wont get resolved till they clear out a blocked drain on the roadside going into the City.
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02-04-2018, 15:42   #133
GleadlessLad
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Originally Posted by mrmw View Post
Howís about you write a factual post showing accurate comparisons of how many buses and regional trains were cancelled, broke down or late

You might have a shred of credibility then
There's always somebody on here who'll attempt to defend the indefensible!
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02-04-2018, 18:27   #134
mrmw
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Originally Posted by GleadlessLad View Post
There's always somebody on here who'll attempt to defend the indefensible!
Thereís always somebody on here who posts whatever they like no matter how one sided, and with no measurable comparator

#axegrinder
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02-04-2018, 18:53   #135
GleadlessLad
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Originally Posted by mrmw View Post
Thereís always somebody on here who posts whatever they like no matter how one sided, and with no measurable comparator

#axegrinder
Q.E.D.
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02-04-2018, 21:50   #136
fill
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Whilst I could feel sorry for some people having to wait minutes extra for a tram, I don't.
Try comparing it to the bus services which regularly run late and often omit to run some buses on some routes.

I do though feel genuine sympathy for those people in Doncaster Barnsley and Rotherham who through their poll tax were given no choice in their own councils' decisions to contribute towards the Super tram network. I'm not certain but I think they and the people of Sheffield are still paying for the tram.

Only in their cases how many years have they been waiting for their first Trams?
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02-04-2018, 22:52   #137
busdriver1
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Originally Posted by fill View Post
Whilst I could feel sorry for some people having to wait minutes extra for a tram, I don't.
Try comparing it to the bus services which regularly run late and often omit to run some buses on some routes.

I do though feel genuine sympathy for those people in Doncaster Barnsley and Rotherham who through their poll tax were given no choice in their own councils' decisions to contribute towards the Super tram network. I'm not certain but I think they and the people of Sheffield are still paying for the tram.

Only in their cases how many years have they been waiting for their first Trams?
Nobody I know in Rotherham wants the tram here anyway.
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03-04-2018, 00:20   #138
The Joker
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It wont get resolved till they clear out a blocked drain on the roadside going into the City.
how long before Amey get round to it ?
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03-04-2018, 00:34   #139
apelike
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how long before Amey get round to it ?
Probably as long again as it has been blocked so far, and that around 2 years..

Actually I apologise for that wrong information above. The drain is not blocked but it is in the wrong place above the dip in the road and not in it so when that bit floods it will not drain away very quickly.
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As only 34.7% of the electorate actually voted to remain we will be Going, going gone soon

Last edited by apelike; 03-04-2018 at 16:23.
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03-04-2018, 12:35   #140
alexander874
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Nobody I know in Rotherham wants the tram here anyway.
The friends I know in Rotherham cant wait for the tram to start they are totally fed up with the unreliability of the X1 .
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