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Evidence Bombs were planted beneath trains on 7/7

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The scenario that was portrayed on the BBC Panorama show "London under Attack" in May 2004 did have Peter Power on it and did involve 3 tube trains and an above ground vehicle. The 3 tube trains were at different locations than the ones that the actual bombs went off under and the above ground vehicle in the programme was a chlorine tanker truck instead of a double-decker bus.

 

On the 7th of July 2005, Peter Power and his firm Visor Consultants were conducting a mock terror exercise/drill, for an unnamed client, in the exact same locations where the real bombs went off. In other words, in the same tube trains and in the same double-decker bus.

 

At this point one has to wonder if you are simply incompetent or you are willfully trying to mislead people with your repeated disinformation.

 

So which is it Longcol?

 

Are you incompetent or are you willfully trying to spread disinformation?

 

Just read posts #191 - 193 on this thread - already answered.

 

Please read the whole threads.

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Just read posts #191 - 193 on this thread - already answered.

 

Please read the whole threads.

 

 

I have read posts #191-193, which is more reason to ask the question that you haven't answered yet regarding your apparent desire to spread disinformation, whether it be willfully or otherwise.

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I have read posts #191-193, which is more reason to ask the question that you haven't answered yet regarding your apparent desire to spread disinformation, whether it be willfully or otherwise.

 

And the point you are trying to make with posts #191 - #193 is what precisely?

 

What disinformation am I spreading?

 

London has the HQ of more international corporations than any city in the world - big organisations do a lot of scenario planning - they have to keep business continuity.

 

Given that it isn't exactly unlikely that a large company would be running an exercise on 7/7.

 

Hill / Muad'Dib (and mosy conspiracy theorists) have never worked for large organisations - therefore they'd easily think it suspicious - it isn't - it is the real world whether or not we like it.

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Make it down to the platform in under 3 minutes carrying heavy backpacks full of EXTREMELY volatile "home-made" explosives?

 

 

To accept your ridiculous idea we would need to completely ignore the following:

 

 

1) there is no evidence they purchased the tickets in advance;

 

2) if they were planning on catching the 7:24A train from Luton it is HIGHLY unlikely that they would show up with less than 2 minutes to spare, especially considering we have been told they had been sitting out in the parking area for quite some time;

 

3) no matter how "fit" they may have been there is absolutely no way they could have ran or even walked rapidly...if we are to believe the official story that they were carrying EXTREMELY volatile "home-made" explosives made in their bathtubs; and

 

4) you can bet if they did catch the 7:24A that left Luton station at 7:25A there would be LOADS of CCTV camera footage of them catching the tube trains that they supposedly blew up.

 

 

Any way you want to try it, the official story just doesn't add up.

 

I can't really comment on if they could of made it in time,i don't know the area or how possible it would be.

However considering they were wearing these volatile backpacks they seemed very relaxed just prior to the bombings according to witness reports,didn't one even call for a macdonalds(sounds like a real hardcore terrorist:suspect:)

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I can't really comment on if they could of made it in time,i don't know the area or how possible it would be.

However considering they were wearing these volatile backpacks they seemed very relaxed just prior to the bombings according to witness reports,didn't one even call for a macdonalds(sounds like a real hardcore terrorist:suspect:)

I know what you mean, let's face it 72 virgins in heaven just a few minutes away, how could any man not be quite agitated and excited.

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I can't really comment on if they could of made it in time,i don't know the area or how possible it would be.

However considering they were wearing these volatile backpacks they seemed very relaxed just prior to the bombings according to witness reports,didn't one even call for a macdonalds(sounds like a real hardcore terrorist:suspect:)

 

How do we know the explosives were volatile (ie could have gone off without a detonator) - the post by RobFr was the first time I've seen this claim anywhere - and in a poor attempt to try and prove four young fit blokes couldn't have travelled the small distance from Luton Station entrance to the train in 3 minutes.

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How do we know the explosives were volatile (ie could have gone off without a detonator) - the post by RobFr was the first time I've seen this claim anywhere - and in a poor attempt to try and prove four young fit blokes couldn't have travelled the small distance from Luton Station entrance to the train in 3 minutes.

My Bold. Exactly, most explosives are very stable until a detonator is applied, you can even burn plastic explosive on a fire without it exploding it just burns.

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From Times Online

July 15, 2005

TATP is suicide bombers' weapon of choice

By Philippe Naughton, Times Online

In the occupied Palestinian territories, you can tell who the 'engineers' are: they are the ones covered in burn marks who might be missing fingers, or even a whole hand.

The engineers are the bomb-makers for the young suicide bombers sent to kill Israelis by the Islamic militant organisations such as Hamas. And their explosive of choice, triacetone triperoxide or TATP - named today as an explosive used in last week's London bombings - is the reason for their disfigurement.

TATP's base ingredients - drain cleaner, bleach and acetone - can be bought easily and without attracting suspicion; its chemical composition is simple; and in its finished form it is almost undetectable by sniffer dogs or conventional bomb detection systems.

For the same reasons that Hamas uses TATP to send suicide bombers undetected into Israel, the al-Qaeda network has adopted TATP for its terror missions abroad. The substance was included as the trigger in the shoe bomb that Briton Richard Reid tried to detonate on a flight from Paris to Miami in December 2001, and in the identical device given to Reid's fellow bomber Sajid Badat, who aborted his mission.

But as the Palestinian bomb-makers will attest - 40 Palestinians are thought to have been killed making or handling the explosive - it is highly unstable and sensitive to heat and friction. Not for nothing is it known as "Mother of Satan".

As one British explosives expert said today of the news that TATP was involved in the four London blasts: "Frankly, I wouldn't like to be wandering around with 10lb of TATP on my back."

That expert suggested that TATP - which does not need sophisticated detonating devices - might have been used only as the trigger for the London bombs, but it could have been the main explosive. "It would be surprising, but then the Jihadis, and al-Qaeda, are always capable of surprising us," he added.

In Reid's case, there was a small thread of TATP running through 100 grammes of PETN, a high-grade military plastic explosive, attached to a powder-fuse running through his shoelace. That combination surprised bomb experts - TATP is not the trigger normally used for PETN - but was seen as a sophisticated mixture for avoiding detection.

Although discovered as far back as 1895 by a German scientist, Richard Wolffenstein, TATP's instability meant it was never taken up militarily or commercially. But it was rediscovered in the West Bank in the early 1980s and soon became an extremists' staple.

Instructions for making TATP can be found relatively quickly on the internet. Anthony Loyd, a Times reporter, found similar instructions in documents abandoned in an al-Qaeda safe house after the fall of Kabul in November 2001.

TATP is thought to have been used in used in various bomb attacks outside the Middle East, including on a Philippines Airlines flight to Japan in December 1994. It was also used as the trigger in two car bombs detonated in London in July 1994 outside the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish philanthropic institution. Two Palestinian students were later convicted of conspiracy over those bombings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article544334.ece

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From Times Online

July 15, 2005

TATP is suicide bombers' weapon of choice

By Philippe Naughton, Times Online

In the occupied Palestinian territories, you can tell who the 'engineers' are: they are the ones covered in burn marks who might be missing fingers, or even a whole hand.

The engineers are the bomb-makers for the young suicide bombers sent to kill Israelis by the Islamic militant organisations such as Hamas. And their explosive of choice, triacetone triperoxide or TATP - named today as an explosive used in last week's London bombings - is the reason for their disfigurement.

TATP's base ingredients - drain cleaner, bleach and acetone - can be bought easily and without attracting suspicion; its chemical composition is simple; and in its finished form it is almost undetectable by sniffer dogs or conventional bomb detection systems.

For the same reasons that Hamas uses TATP to send suicide bombers undetected into Israel, the al-Qaeda network has adopted TATP for its terror missions abroad. The substance was included as the trigger in the shoe bomb that Briton Richard Reid tried to detonate on a flight from Paris to Miami in December 2001, and in the identical device given to Reid's fellow bomber Sajid Badat, who aborted his mission.

But as the Palestinian bomb-makers will attest - 40 Palestinians are thought to have been killed making or handling the explosive - it is highly unstable and sensitive to heat and friction. Not for nothing is it known as "Mother of Satan".

As one British explosives expert said today of the news that TATP was involved in the four London blasts: "Frankly, I wouldn't like to be wandering around with 10lb of TATP on my back."

That expert suggested that TATP - which does not need sophisticated detonating devices - might have been used only as the trigger for the London bombs, but it could have been the main explosive. "It would be surprising, but then the Jihadis, and al-Qaeda, are always capable of surprising us," he added.

In Reid's case, there was a small thread of TATP running through 100 grammes of PETN, a high-grade military plastic explosive, attached to a powder-fuse running through his shoelace. That combination surprised bomb experts - TATP is not the trigger normally used for PETN - but was seen as a sophisticated mixture for avoiding detection.

Although discovered as far back as 1895 by a German scientist, Richard Wolffenstein, TATP's instability meant it was never taken up militarily or commercially. But it was rediscovered in the West Bank in the early 1980s and soon became an extremists' staple.

Instructions for making TATP can be found relatively quickly on the internet. Anthony Loyd, a Times reporter, found similar instructions in documents abandoned in an al-Qaeda safe house after the fall of Kabul in November 2001.

TATP is thought to have been used in used in various bomb attacks outside the Middle East, including on a Philippines Airlines flight to Japan in December 1994. It was also used as the trigger in two car bombs detonated in London in July 1994 outside the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish philanthropic institution. Two Palestinian students were later convicted of conspiracy over those bombings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article544334.ece

 

From yourself on another tread - ''the bombs themselves have been proven to be military grade high explosives, which would not be available to Muslim suicide bombers''

 

Which is it? Do you actually know what you're talking about?

Edited by Halibut

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After telling us that the bombs were of military origin, the story was changed to TATP/TCAP about a week later, as the article above shows.

 

This has become the government's official story and has been out since 8 days after the bombings took place.

 

TATP/TCAP is considered to be HIGHLY unstable, and impurities actually increase its instability, thus the comments made by one British explosives expert in the article above: "Frankly, I wouldn't like to be wandering around with 10lb of TATP on my back."

 

 

So if you believe the official government cover-story, that the 4 alleged 7/7 bombers made up TATP/TCAP explosives in their bathtubs, you have to accept that the HIGHLY unstable bombs were carried around in backpacks. And in the case of Hasib Hussain, the backpack/rucksack supposedly containing the TATP/TCAP explosives was thrown to the ground before he rummaged around inside of it.

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After telling us that the bombs were of military origin, the story was changed to TATP/TCAP about a week later, as the article above shows.

 

This has become the government's official story and has been out since 8 days after the bombings took place.

 

TATP/TCAP is considered to be HIGHLY unstable, and impurities actually increase its instability, thus the comments made by one British explosives expert in the article above: "Frankly, I wouldn't like to be wandering around with 10lb of TATP on my back."

 

 

So if you believe the official government cover-story, that the 4 alleged 7/7 bombers made up TATP/TCAP explosives in their bathtubs, you have to accept that the HIGHLY unstable bombs were carried around in backpacks. And in the case of Hasib Hussain, the backpack/rucksack supposedly containing the TATP/TCAP explosives was thrown to the ground before he rummaged around inside of it.

 

Yes, I do indeed accept those ideas. The bombers would have been well aware of the naure of TATP and of the possibility of premature detonation.

 

I still find it odd though that you can express two directly contradictory opinions as fact within the same week whilst claiming some kind of expertise or insider knowledge.

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From Times Online

July 15, 2005

TATP is suicide bombers' weapon of choice

By Philippe Naughton, Times Online

In the occupied Palestinian territories, you can tell who the 'engineers' are: they are the ones covered in burn marks who might be missing fingers, or even a whole hand.

The engineers are the bomb-makers for the young suicide bombers sent to kill Israelis by the Islamic militant organisations such as Hamas. And their explosive of choice, triacetone triperoxide or TATP - named today as an explosive used in last week's London bombings - is the reason for their disfigurement.

TATP's base ingredients - drain cleaner, bleach and acetone - can be bought easily and without attracting suspicion; its chemical composition is simple; and in its finished form it is almost undetectable by sniffer dogs or conventional bomb detection systems.

For the same reasons that Hamas uses TATP to send suicide bombers undetected into Israel, the al-Qaeda network has adopted TATP for its terror missions abroad. The substance was included as the trigger in the shoe bomb that Briton Richard Reid tried to detonate on a flight from Paris to Miami in December 2001, and in the identical device given to Reid's fellow bomber Sajid Badat, who aborted his mission.

But as the Palestinian bomb-makers will attest - 40 Palestinians are thought to have been killed making or handling the explosive - it is highly unstable and sensitive to heat and friction. Not for nothing is it known as "Mother of Satan".

As one British explosives expert said today of the news that TATP was involved in the four London blasts: "Frankly, I wouldn't like to be wandering around with 10lb of TATP on my back."

That expert suggested that TATP - which does not need sophisticated detonating devices - might have been used only as the trigger for the London bombs, but it could have been the main explosive. "It would be surprising, but then the Jihadis, and al-Qaeda, are always capable of surprising us," he added.

In Reid's case, there was a small thread of TATP running through 100 grammes of PETN, a high-grade military plastic explosive, attached to a powder-fuse running through his shoelace. That combination surprised bomb experts - TATP is not the trigger normally used for PETN - but was seen as a sophisticated mixture for avoiding detection.

Although discovered as far back as 1895 by a German scientist, Richard Wolffenstein, TATP's instability meant it was never taken up militarily or commercially. But it was rediscovered in the West Bank in the early 1980s and soon became an extremists' staple.

Instructions for making TATP can be found relatively quickly on the internet. Anthony Loyd, a Times reporter, found similar instructions in documents abandoned in an al-Qaeda safe house after the fall of Kabul in November 2001.

TATP is thought to have been used in used in various bomb attacks outside the Middle East, including on a Philippines Airlines flight to Japan in December 1994. It was also used as the trigger in two car bombs detonated in London in July 1994 outside the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish philanthropic institution. Two Palestinian students were later convicted of conspiracy over those bombings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article544334.ece

 

So given that it has been succesfully used in many suicide bombings I think we can draw the conclusions that whilst volatile and therefore a risk, it is far from inevitable that it would explode prior to detonation.

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