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University tuition fees review

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Mine cost (me) nothing. I paid it back straight away:)

 

You're old, of course it cost nowt. I bet you're that old you got a grant ;);)

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Havent got one . read my earlier post

 

Your earlier post makes no mention of your qualifications.

 

You do know that University attendance isn't strictly necessary to hold a degree, don't you?

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 00:11 ----------

 

You're old, of course it cost nowt. I bet you're that old you got a grant ;);)

 

I got a grant and drank the lot:D

 

I have repaid the taxpayer over the last 30 years though.

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She never took a loan that she thought she might never pay back . She worked hard in her studies , while holding down two jobs that helped her pay her way . She never embarked on a path where she thought she wouldn't have to pay her dues . She followed her heart . When she is at the threshold when she has to pay her dues ,she will . . It must be hard being as righteous as you are

 

You’re simply describing a badly broken system. No fault of your relative of course but it is broken. Repeat millions of times until there is hundreds of billions of unrecoverable debt.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 00:57 ----------

 

How much did your degree cost and have you paid it back yet?

 

Nothing for fees. My student loan was a few grand and I’ve paid it back. My post-grad was funded by EPSRC (Electrical and Physical Sciences Research Council) and was fully funded for fees and a maintenance allowance.

 

Very lucky!!!

 

I’ve got to get several of my kids through the system in the next few years. Looking at a collective debt for three of them being way past £100k. I don’t want them to have to take that on. I didn’t have to. But I am pragmatic enough to know that we/they should contribute something. There’s a funding crisis not just for higher education but also all post-18 training and we need a sustainable way of ploughing funds back in.

 

A private company charging punative interest and having highly restricted collection rules is not the way to achieve that. There is so much wrong with that it’s not funny.

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Yes I know that, but that's not the point I was disputing (although non-white graduates earn less than white graduates with the same degree, so maybe we could have some income tax bands based on ethnic origin, that would stir things up!).

 

No, my question was "do we know that graduates themselves are the primary beneficiaries of their education?" I asked this because the logic of a graduate tax or higher income tax bands for graduates seems to be that they are the primary beneficiary of their education. But is that just an assumption? If the rest of us significantly benefit from the outputs of their education then shouldn't we share the cost of it with them?

 

Gosh, but do we really? Please name 10 people in modern history ie last 20 years. That enriched us all and put more money in the pocket of the populous, so much that we can pay their fees.

Edited by phil752

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Gosh, but do we really? Please name 10 people in modern history ie last 20 years. That enriched us all and put more money in the pocket of the populous, so much that we can pay their fees.

 

What a strange response. To give an example, many people will generate greater value for their employer and the wider economy than they would have had without a degree education, so the employer and the rest of us derive some benefit from that, as well as the graduate employee themselves. And people with medical degrees go on to do things that directly benefit us and the economy. Or so I would think. It would be good to know what wider benefit graduates provide to the rest of us, don't you think? That would help us to decide to what extent we should pay towards the cost of their education.

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Gosh, but do we really? Please name 10 people in modern history ie last 20 years. That enriched us all and put more money in the pocket of the populous, so much that we can pay their fees.

 

Well, I could name multiple friends who are now Drs (the medical kind) in various disciplines and help to or directly save lives every day.

I have friends researching jet engine improvements, renewable wave power generation, military defence equipment, disease research, railway safety and the list goes on.

All those things benefit society directly and generally.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 08:36 ----------

 

You're old, of course it cost nowt. I bet you're that old you got a grant ;);)

 

I think that's kind of the point isn't it? It's easy to criticise a current day student, from the position of having had our degrees paid for.

 

I took a loan in my final year, total debt was about £1500, which I paid back a year or two later.

I'd also had grants, which probably came to about the same amount, and of course my tuition fees were paid directly, so we can probably say, after adjusting for inflation that they were worth something like £20,000 - £30,000 (4 year course).

 

And you can bet your bottom dollar that no politician will suggest a graduate tax that applies to existing graduates! They won't want to pay it themselves, and they won't want 40% of the voting public to be facing a new tax.

Apply the tax to new graduates, starting in 3 years time, and definitely don't give 16 year olds the vote. That way by the time they can vote, it's done and dusted, they've had no say in it, no chance for representation of their interests.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 08:38 ----------

 

You’re simply describing a badly broken system. No fault of your relative of course but it is broken. Repeat millions of times until there is hundreds of billions of unrecoverable debt.

 

Why not just roll it up into government expenditure. The country benefits from an educated populace, graduates earn more and thus pay more tax. And I'd hazard a guess that the cost of this is actually pretty small beans in the government budget.

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You’re simply describing a badly broken system. No fault of your relative of course but it is broken. Repeat millions of times until there is hundreds of billions of unrecoverable debt.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 00:57 ----------

 

 

Nothing for fees. My student loan was a few grand and I’ve paid it back. My post-grad was funded by EPSRC (Electrical and Physical Sciences Research Council) and was fully funded for fees and a maintenance allowance.

 

Very lucky!!!

 

I’ve got to get several of my kids through the system in the next few years. Looking at a collective debt for three of them being way past £100k. I don’t want them to have to take that on. I didn’t have to. But I am pragmatic enough to know that we/they should contribute something. There’s a funding crisis not just for higher education but also all post-18 training and we need a sustainable way of ploughing funds back in.

 

A private company charging punative interest and having highly restricted collection rules is not the way to achieve that. There is so much wrong with that it’s not funny.

 

But you're happy to have a go at Hackey lads niece who might not pay a far higher amount back - possibly because the economy will turn to ****, who by your own definition is far less lucky.

 

Careful up on that high horse.

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But you're happy to have a go at Hackey lads niece who might not pay a far higher amount back - possibly because the economy will turn to ****, who by your own definition is far less lucky.

 

Careful up on that high horse.

 

I’d rather we had a simple system that everybody understood, that did not charge punative interest, that isn’t contrived to allow private profit taking, and that guaranteed revenue that could be used to support and invest in all forms of post-18 education and training.

 

I’m not having a personal go at hackeys niece, but it should be clear that her situation just illustrates how broken the system is.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 12:53 ----------

 

Well, I could name multiple friends who are now Drs (the medical kind) in various disciplines and help to or directly save lives every day.

I have friends researching jet engine improvements, renewable wave power generation, military defence equipment, disease research, railway safety and the list goes on.

All those things benefit society directly and generally.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 08:36 ----------

 

 

I think that's kind of the point isn't it? It's easy to criticise a current day student, from the position of having had our degrees paid for.

 

I took a loan in my final year, total debt was about £1500, which I paid back a year or two later.

I'd also had grants, which probably came to about the same amount, and of course my tuition fees were paid directly, so we can probably say, after adjusting for inflation that they were worth something like £20,000 - £30,000 (4 year course).

 

And you can bet your bottom dollar that no politician will suggest a graduate tax that applies to existing graduates! They won't want to pay it themselves, and they won't want 40% of the voting public to be facing a new tax.

Apply the tax to new graduates, starting in 3 years time, and definitely don't give 16 year olds the vote. That way by the time they can vote, it's done and dusted, they've had no say in it, no chance for representation of their interests.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 08:38 ----------

 

 

Why not just roll it up into government expenditure. The country benefits from an educated populace, graduates earn more and thus pay more tax. And I'd hazard a guess that the cost of this is actually pretty small beans in the government budget.

 

When it is rolled into government expenditure it just takes one ideologically driven government one parliament to screw the system up again.

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Until we reach 2028 no one can say that loans introduced to replace grants are not being paid back.

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Gosh, but do we really? Please name 10 people in modern history ie last 20 years. That enriched us all and put more money in the pocket of the populous, so much that we can pay their fees.

 

I did some work on LED bulbs. Fairly certain everyones electric bills went down a fair bit because of that. Does that count?

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There is a balancing act to be achieved here.

 

Some degrees have a high value due to the potential income of their applicants. Eg Accountancy. Law. Etc.

 

Some degrees have a high value due to the potential of their applicants to enrich society. Eg Art. History. Etc.

 

Some degrees do both of the above. Eg Medical. Engineering. Etc.

 

Any degree falling outside of these three categories should really be considered self indulgent and charged appropriately.

 

Anything within these categories should be encouraged and heavily subsided by the people/government.

 

I studied English because I wanted to become an English teacher. I'm now £35,000 in student debt.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 22:54 ----------

 

I would like to know why UK has the highest charges in the EU (and I believe in the world,) I've never seen a breakdown of the charges. It's like they plucked a random figure out of the air.

 

Is there any differentiation based on timetabled hours for example? When I was at Uni (I admit quite a few years ago,) we were timetabled for 25 hours a week, which I believe was one of the highest attendence requirements, but some degree courses were only timetabled for 8 hours (manily arts) and a lot of students didn't even turn up for those.

 

I understand a lot of students now see themselves as paying clients, and expect value for money (quite right,) but they also seem to think this entitles them to a 1:1 degree and threaten to sue for 'poor teaching quality' if they don't get it, which opens up a whole hornet's nest. I heard that 40% of students now get double firsts...

 

So yes, the whole thing does need looking at.

 

I used to get 8 hours of teaching a week at uni and 2 of these hours were between 7pm and 9pm in the evening when I couldn't concentrate because I was so tired after being at work all day. My loan only just covered the cost of my accomodation and food so I had to work part time to get enough money for travel, books and beer. I had to spend about £200 a semester just on books. I wish amazon kindle or ipads were out when I was at uni because I could have saved a lot of money by buying ebooks instead.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 22:58 ----------

 

Yes, that's true. I've tried to Google it but have found conflicting answers, so I've no idea where the BBC got their statistics from. But the main point is UK university fees are 'among' the highest in the world, would you agree with that?

 

I just want to know why?

 

I stand by what I wrote in post 9 (just my opinion.) What do you think?

 

I happen to agree with Mrs May's where she said other routes into employment, eg technical apprenticeships etc should be considered to be just as prestigeous, but I can't see that happenning in our class conscious little nation, can you? And apparently funding for F.E. has been going down for years anyway, which does seem to make it rather the second class Cinderella of the Education world.

 

It's wrong that funding for F.E has been reducing. F.E often provides a better and more suitable education for students who found that school wasn't for them.

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