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17-03-2018, 12:16   #921
paula4sheff
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Originally Posted by Crosser View Post
HECK!

It's not like the trees matter They probably shouldn't have been planted by the roadsides anyway! but in hindsight now they are damaging things.

So simply chop them all down, plant some new ones in their place.... then have the same time/energy/resource wasting FIASCO in 30 years time eh?

Or maybe...

Chop them down and then re-plant trees in areas where trees will be left alone, forests, woods, cops's or even tracts of waste land where they won't attack the infrastructure.

To be fair, at the time the trees were planted with the best of intentions, however now they are a menace in more ways than one.

Things change... get used to it!
Fortunately mainly people recognise that living in an environment surrounded by tarmac and concrete is pretty awful, for both the ebvirontment, and mental health. Not to mention sterile, and bleak.

Rather sad that you seem to view things in such a dull manner. I imagine replacing any grass in your garden with fake grass or concrete is also a priority. 'easier to manage'. Depressing.
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17-03-2018, 13:01   #922
Longcol
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
Fortunately mainly people recognise that living in an environment surrounded by tarmac and concrete is pretty awful, for both the ebvirontment, and mental health. Not to mention sterile, and bleak.

Rather sad that you seem to view things in such a dull manner. I imagine replacing any grass in your garden with fake grass or concrete is also a priority. 'easier to manage'. Depressing.
Who says cutting down a few thousand trees growing in footpaths and roadside verges will leave an environment surrounded by tarmac and concrete - this seems to be one of the big myths spread by STAG and the like - they seem to ignore the many thousand more trees close to roads planted in other locations.

I walk to work in town every day along main roads and pass a good hundred trees by a few feet - only half a dozen are planted in the footpath or roadside verges.
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18-03-2018, 14:07   #923
paula4sheff
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Who says cutting down a few thousand trees growing in footpaths and roadside verges will leave an environment surrounded by tarmac and concrete - this seems to be one of the big myths spread by STAG and the like - they seem to ignore the many thousand more trees close to roads planted in other locations.

I walk to work in town every day along main roads and pass a good hundred trees by a few feet - only half a dozen are planted in the footpath or roadside verges.
Well pretty soon you'll be walkimg past a lot less. 17,500 trees- half of those in the city may well leave you looking at a heck of a lot more concrete and tarmac. Removed for no other reason than the profit of a multinational company. If that's something you're happy with, I feel sorry for you.

It really beats me why anyone would think a group of people standing up to a multinational company, regarded across the world and well documentated as being shady, facing arrest and fines, for no personal gain, are interested in creating 'big myths'. I sort of despair that society would ever favour such a company as amey over those trying, against all odds, to stop their practices. It seems sp sad. The little men and women really aren't the enemy- and it's shameful that amey have created enough crap that some people think they are.

I suppose it's similar to the way those on the dole, immigrants and such like are portrayed as the 'problem'. We're well conditioned to hate the little men and women rather than thoae that deserve our hate- the companies like amey, vodafone, banks etc that make life worse for everyone at our expense and their gain.

Last edited by paula4sheff; 18-03-2018 at 14:19.
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18-03-2018, 14:16   #924
Longcol
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Well pretty soon you'll be walkimg past a lot less. 17,500 trees- half of those in the city may well leave you looking at a heck of a lot more concrete and tarmac.
No - 17,500 trees is half those planted in pavements and roadside verges - not half the trees in the city.
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18-03-2018, 14:22   #925
paula4sheff
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No - 17,500 trees is half those planted in pavements and roadside verges - not half the trees in the city.
Fair point- but still no reason fpr them to be removed for amey's profit. Fortunately they can't get their hands on parkland....
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18-03-2018, 15:18   #926
Phili Buster
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We keep hearing about these 17,500 trees being cut down but very little about how many are to be planted/replanted in their place ... or will the amount of money having to be spent policing the protests result in less available to finance replacements
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18-03-2018, 16:07   #927
monkey104
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
Well pretty soon you'll be walkimg past a lot less. 17,500 trees- half of those in the city may well leave you looking at a heck of a lot more concrete and tarmac. Removed for no other reason than the profit of a multinational company. If that's something you're happy with, I feel sorry for you.

It really beats me why anyone would think a group of people standing up to a multinational company, regarded across the world and well documentated as being shady, facing arrest and fines, for no personal gain, are interested in creating 'big myths'. I sort of despair that society would ever favour such a company as amey over those trying, against all odds, to stop their practices. It seems sp sad. The little men and women really aren't the enemy- and it's shameful that amey have created enough crap that some people think they are.

I suppose it's similar to the way those on the dole, immigrants and such like are portrayed as the 'problem'. We're well conditioned to hate the little men and women rather than thoae that deserve our hate- the companies like amey, vodafone, banks etc that make life worse for everyone at our expense and their gain.
The issue is that the protesters are drawing out the inevitable and at the same time costing the taxpayer an absolute fortune.
The protest was initially about the trees but now it appears to be shady dealing by Amey/council.
Which is it?
What is the reason for protecting the trees? Is it aesthetic or is it to save the environment? Or is it because you believe the trees have feelings?
There are many problems going on in the world and a few trees are at the very bottom of the pile.
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18-03-2018, 16:13   #928
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Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
The issue is that the protesters are drawing out the inevitable and at the same time costing the taxpayer an absolute fortune.
The protest was initially about the trees but now it appears to be shady dealing by Amey/council.
Which is it?
What is the reason for protecting the trees? Is it aesthetic or is it to save the environment? Or is it because you believe the trees have feelings?
There are many problems going on in the world and a few trees are at the very bottom of the pile.
See this...A well put argument...Bravo fella...My sentiments exactly. Too many folks with nothing better to do than go out side and complain about something...Typical (old) Sheffielders.
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18-03-2018, 17:12   #929
Staunton
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Why would they. They used reasonable force, that of laying hands on to remove the protesters from the excluded area.
You know, like a doorman can remove you from a pub...
A pub is private property. These are the public streets of Sheffield.

The police are being used as private security, that's public money spent protecting a tax abusing multinational.
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18-03-2018, 17:21   #930
monkey104
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Originally Posted by Staunton View Post
A pub is private property. These are the public streets of Sheffield.

The police are being used as private security, that's public money spent protecting a tax abusing multinational.
But the area had been legally turned in to an excluded area allowing removal by force if necessary.
So what the hell are you doing? Protecting trees or protesting against a multinational?
Now stop wasting my tax money and let them get on with it.
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18-03-2018, 17:49   #931
the_bloke
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Originally Posted by Staunton View Post
A pub is private property. These are the public streets of Sheffield.

The police are being used as private security, that's public money spent protecting a tax abusing multinational.
In what way is Amey a tax abusing multinational?
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18-03-2018, 18:49   #932
Cyclone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
The issue is that the protesters are drawing out the inevitable and at the same time costing the taxpayer an absolute fortune.
The protest was initially about the trees but now it appears to be shady dealing by Amey/council.
Which is it?
What is the reason for protecting the trees? Is it aesthetic or is it to save the environment? Or is it because you believe the trees have feelings?
There are many problems going on in the world and a few trees are at the very bottom of the pile.
Are you someone who can only be concerned about one issue at a time?
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18-03-2018, 18:58   #933
paula4sheff
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But the area had been legally turned in to an excluded area allowing removal by force if necessary.
So what the hell are you doing? Protecting trees or protesting against a multinational?
Now stop wasting my tax money and let them get on with it.
How about both...and more?

The tree protests have opened many eyes to some pretty major issues going on. They've also opened the eyea of national and international media to he breakdown in democracy- even the new york times has run a large piece.

Quite amazinf that it's those who have brought he problem to the eyes of the world yu accuse of wasring your tax money and not the council and amey.

Have a read of some of the articles. It might open your eyes too.
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18-03-2018, 20:02   #934
monkey104
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
How about both...and more?

The tree protests have opened many eyes to some pretty major issues going on. They've also opened the eyea of national and international media to he breakdown in democracy- even the new york times has run a large piece.

Quite amazinf that it's those who have brought he problem to the eyes of the world yu accuse of wasring your tax money and not the council and amey.

Have a read of some of the articles. It might open your eyes too.
They have not really opened the eyes of the international media. It’s just a rehash of the stars piece.
And as for removing the trees to save Amey money on maintenance, don’t you think that ship has sailed.
It’s probably costing a lot more to remove the trees than the actual maintenance.
So as I say, stop wasting my tax money.
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18-03-2018, 20:26   #935
paula4sheff
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Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
They have not really opened the eyes of the international media. Itís just a rehash of the stars piece.
And as for removing the trees to save Amey money on maintenance, donít you think that ship has sailed.
Itís probably costing a lot more to remove the trees than the actual maintenance.
So as I say, stop wasting my tax money.
There's a lot more to it than saving money on maintanance- as many of the articles go into. I don't think you've read these articles, as nothing is a rehash of anything he sheffield star has ever written- most papers, including the new york times, have all sent their own reporters and conducted solid research and articles. That they've done that sgows on it's own the huge level of importance and interest in the gpings on in sheffield at the moment.

If you buy the line that Amey are doing this for thr best interests of sheffield then fine, but ibe aware you may have had the wool pulled over your eyes, and take a bit of time to read about the larger issue in a variety of well written and researched news outlets. And also consider why so many councils across the cointry are desperately trying to get out of contracts with Amey.
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18-03-2018, 21:09   #936
monkey104
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
There's a lot more to it than saving money on maintanance- as many of the articles go into. I don't think you've read these articles, as nothing is a rehash of anything he sheffield star has ever written- most papers, including the new york times, have all sent their own reporters and conducted solid research and articles. That they've done that sgows on it's own the huge level of importance and interest in the gpings on in sheffield at the moment.

If you buy the line that Amey are doing this for thr best interests of sheffield then fine, but ibe aware you may have had the wool pulled over your eyes, and take a bit of time to read about the larger issue in a variety of well written and researched news outlets. And also consider why so many councils across the cointry are desperately trying to get out of contracts with Amey.
Pherhaps you could provide a link to that article because the NY Times artic.e I read contains nothing new that hasnít already been reported in the star.
But that aside, the protest was initially about saving the trees. It was only later that Amey/council shenanigans came to light.
So let them finish removing the trees, let the police get back to doing what they should be doing and protest the Amey / council shenanigans in a way that is not costing the taxpayer.
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18-03-2018, 21:55   #937
dave_the_m
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So let them finish removing the trees
Why on earth would we do that? I don't want half of Sheffield's street trees replaced with saplings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
let the police get back to doing what they should be doing
I agree wholeheartedly. However, the protesters aren't stopping the police from getting on with what they should be doing. We all think that having 30+ police attending peaceful demonstrations is a ridiculous mis-allocation of resources. (And it's still the case that no protester has been charged with any offence, despite all the headllne arrests.)

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Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
and protest the Amey / council shenanigans in a way that is not costing the taxpayer.
The protests are mainly costing Amey money, not SCC. Admittedly SCC did blow about £70K on a misguided and failed private prosecution of a Green Party councillor, but that's their stupid fault.
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18-03-2018, 22:14   #938
Staunton
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But the area had been legally turned in to an excluded area allowing removal by force if necessary.
So what the hell are you doing? Protecting trees or protesting against a multinational?
Now stop wasting my tax money and let them get on with it.
It's a nice little trick isn't it? Turn a public space into an exclusion area in order to use the law on behalf of a tax avoiding multinational.

I am protesting on environmental grounds and against multinationals.


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Originally Posted by the_bloke View Post
In what way is Amey a tax abusing multinational?
Amey plc is part of Grupo Ferrovial, the Spanish company that just happens to own more than twenty subsidiaries domiciled in tax havens. I wonder why?

Last edited by Staunton; 18-03-2018 at 22:16.
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18-03-2018, 22:15   #939
cgksheff
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Are we absolutely sure that the policing costs are being met by Amey?
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18-03-2018, 22:21   #940
dave_the_m
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Are we absolutely sure that the policing costs are being met by Amey?
We don't know. Everyone concerned is being very cagey about releasing details.
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