Are Calais Migrants OUR Problem?

It's a German problem, caused by Merkel's open door policy that backfired so spectacularly.

 

It's a French problem, caused by subservience to German policy and decades old open border policy to former North African colonies that have allowed people to build genuine family ties in France and then the UK.

 

It's an EU problem because the EU has provided a boat taxi service from North Afrika at the same time as continuing the lie that Turkey will eventually gain EU membership while using them as a proxy military buffer to Persia in exchange for allowing migrants to pass through Turkey.

 

It's a UK problem because of all the above and a detached domestic political right / left who are each trying to out virtue signal the other.

 

It's a problem for the whole of Europe. Because the problem is the developing world population growth and their not unreasonable wish for a better life. a life that is difficult for them to achieve in Africa etc because some countries there are producing far more people than they can provide for. Not enough money, jobs, health care or opportunity.

So they are looking to get to Europe by hook or by crook. Not just Europe either, the USA too.

 

Population of Nigeria in 1976 was 65.25 million. Population in 2016 was 186 million.

 

Population of the Congo in 1976 was 23.5 million. In 2016 it was 78.7 million.

 

Sudan. Went from 12.5 million in 1976 to 39.5 million in 2016.

 

Niger 5.3 million to 20.6 million over the same period. Somalia 4.2 million to 14.3 million.

This is typically a tripling of population in 40 years.

 

Other parts of the world have the same problem. A Pakistani population of 68.8 million in 1976 became a population of 193.2 million by 2016. Iraq, 12 million to 37 million.

 

It isn't happening in every developing country but it is happening in a lot of them, and it going to be a problem for a long time to come.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2018 at 09:39 ----------

 

Great idea.

 

How do you implement it?

 

At the moment, would you say that there is the political will to tackle it?

We need to tackle the problem at the source - before they set off on their journey to France, let them know that the UK isn't the paradise they're hoping, and that they're probably not going to be made welcome.

Out-marketing the marketing by traffickers (to say nothing of the straightforward observation of ordinary UK life freely accessible through t'Internet, which overseas onlookers can compare to their own lives) is a very tall order.

 

I'm not saying impossible, but short of hanging illegals from Tower Bridge and leaving them on display, with government rewards for lynching and Home Office-sponsored Youtube channels sprinkled on top, you're hardly likely to make life in the UK less desirable than life in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Mozambique, Zimbabwe <...>

 

I'll not paraphrase Trump out of decency, but I'm sure you get the point

 

I suppose that the UK could contribute more to the EU task force trying to police Med crossings, than the odd token ship every now and then. It'd be a start at least.

Edited January 18, 2018 by L00b

The UK has also agreed to supply France with a number of Chinook helicopters to help fight the terrorist problem in the former French colony of Mali. Should we be getting involved in supporting military action in another region of Africa?

 

Bombing another African or Middle Eastern country is beyond the scope of immigrants clinging to the underside of the Eurostar in a desperate attempt to make it to the UK so I’m not sure why you brought it up.

 

We’re still part of NATO (I think)

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2018 at 09:49 ----------

 

At the moment, would you say that there is the political will to tackle it?

 

it was a rhetorical statement, but since you asked. . .

 

No, there is absolutely no political will to tackle the issue, especially since capitalism demands a never-ending supply of cheap, exploitable labour.

It's a German problem, caused by Merkel's open door policy that backfired so spectacularly.

 

It's a French problem, caused by subservience to German policy and decades old open border policy to former North African colonies that have allowed people to build genuine family ties in France and then the UK.

 

It's an EU problem because the EU has provided a boat taxi service from North Afrika at the same time as continuing the lie that Turkey will eventually gain EU membership while using them as a proxy military buffer to Persia in exchange for allowing migrants to pass through Turkey.

 

It's a UK problem because of all the above and a detached domestic political right / left who are each trying to out virtue signal the other.

 

 

On the upside, there's a little bit of France that will remain forever England

 

Bush and Blair kickstarted the whole migrant crisis with their military adventures in the middle east and subsequent destabilisation domino effect,Europe is bearing the consequences.

Bush and Blair kickstarted the whole migrant crisis with their military adventures in the middle east and subsequent destabilisation domino effect,Europe is bearing the consequences.

 

I'm not so sure. Looking at this chart there are a lot of countries that haven't been involved in our oil-grabbing wars:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis#/media/File:Map_of_the_European_Migrant_Crisis_2015.png

It's a German problem, caused by Merkel's open door policy that backfired so spectacularly.

 

 

Its an international problem!

 

Climate change affects every country, the rich countries have caused most of it. We are coming out of the EU, because we want international trade, not to isolate ourselves.

 

The 'war on terror' is very much our problem; and it is making the world a more unstable place, with more people fleeing their own country, for safety and economic reasons.

Great idea.

 

How do you implement it?

 

Accept only genuine refugee's??

 

We're not under any expectation to accept economic migrants are we?

Accept only genuine refugee's??

 

We're not under any expectation to accept economic migrants are we?

 

We’re not under any obligation to accept economic migrants as far as I know, but see my addition to post #15 regarding a plentiful supply of cheap, exploitable labour.

 

“The machinery of Capitalism is oiled with the blood of the workers” to quote Homer Simpson.

Great idea.

 

How do you implement it?

 

You implement it by

1. Merkel saying that Europe's borders are closed to those without appropriate permission.

2. Convert the Mediterranean Water Taxi Service into the Return to Sender service.

3. Formally tell Turkey that it's not happening and put up a big fence if necessary.

4. Create a properly funded, compassionate joint nations refugee and economic migrant service which implements individual nations individual policy.

 

Since the above is short term politically toxic it can't happen so these discussions will continue and the situation will continue to grow worse.

I think that the problem is more along the lines of NOT why do they want to leave the Sudan etc to come to the UK, but rather, why do they want to leave France to come to the UK?

 

We can all see why they want to leave the Sudan etc but what is wrong with France? EU regs state that they are supposed to seek asylum in the country they land in, not wander around till they find a soft touch.

 

If you want to make the UK unattractive then you should not be aiming to make it less attractive than the Sudan etc, after all they have already left there. You need to make the UK less attractive than France. Find out what France is doing to make them want to leave and do that in the UK but more so

I think that the problem is more along the lines of NOT why do they want to leave the Sudan etc to come to the UK, but rather, why do they want to leave France to come to the UK?

Because it's too hard to exist "outside the system" long-term in France.

 

See below as to why.

If you want to make the UK unattractive then you should not be aiming to make it less attractive than the Sudan etc, after all they have already left there. You need to make the UK less attractive than France. Find out what France is doing to make them want to leave and do that in the UK but more so

Anybody who's ever asked (and there have been lots on here over the years), I've always answered, repeatedly:

 

mandatory ID cards (substitute for: foreign ID card/passport for EU & non-EU tourists and non-French EU residents; sojourn permits aka visas for non-EU legal immigrants) and mandatory carrying of said ID cards/passports/permits (remember that one next time you travel there, if you weren't aware), associated with vast (-compared to UK) stop-search powers for the police (...better be Caucasian to skip stop/searches, as well...);

 

a working registration system for residing foreigners (legal and not, EU and not);

 

a working tracking, processing, detainment and removal procedure for illegals;

 

all integrated with a working centralised system for access to healthcare and benefits, wherein access to free healthcare is subjected to both to pre-registration and to refundable payment (pay €10 to see GP, get €10 refunded if entitled to free healthcare = GP practices and hospitals are fully geared to take and process payments, and to check entitlement as part of that process).

 

Like any of that would ever happen in the UK, any time soon.

 

You don't want ID cards, you don't want plod empowered to stop you and order you to produce them, you want to keep the NHS completely just-walk-in-free-aces-no-paperwork, <etc>. That's for the ideological, don't-want-to-give-more-powers-to-the-state part.

 

I'll gloss over successive government's wholesome incompetence about, and underfunding of, the management of immigration in the UK, legal and not. That's the practical, don't-want-to-throw-money-at-the-problem part.

 

So it's a free-for-all for most illegals who manage to get into the UK (and legals who overstay their visa) because, compared to France (wherein it's significantly more difficult for them to find casual black economy work, because employers are just as 'monitored' in different ways), in the UK effectively there is not much of a system at all, made up of disjointed parts with little in the way of joined-up thinking behind them.

 

Coincidentally with the topic, what you have there, is one of the main reasons why illegals make such a beeline for the UK across Europe. So be careful what you wish for, as you might just get it

Edited January 18, 2018 by L00b

LOL the brexit is getting weaker by the second