Non-islamic extremism

ive pulled up most of the bits i found interesting, it shows how difficult the balance is between the "free speech" we all know and enjoy (to a certain extent) and the need to keep us safe.

 

We in the UK don't have the same level of freedom of expression as they do in the US where it is enshrined in a constitution.

Come on, mafya! Whatever the placards said, nothing gives anyone, not even Muslims, the right to throw stones at people. They can't take the law into their own hands, that's what the feds are for, sorting people out for law breaking.

 

ETA: If it was true that you can't expect people to be tolerant in the face of intolerance, surely there'd have been a lot more trouble in the UK when the Muslims got out there with their placards calling for non believers to be beheaded and for British soldiers to burn in hell? We're so stupidly tolerant over here we almost deserve to suffer.

 

My bold=

The EDL was formed in response to these events, is that what you call tolerance?

We in the UK don't have the same level of freedom of expression as they do in the US where it is enshrined in a constitution.

I expect that's a bit of tin hattery on your behalf, I believe do do have quite a lot of free speech in this country even tho its not enshrined in law Like the US, we don't get arrested generally for what we think either, which is my point of the thread, when does one trump the other?

when somebody acts on their thoughts and kills? or should there be an earlier safety net?

yes it does actually.

 

Not necessarily- or more importantly, depends where you are in the world.

 

There are many legislatives that restrict so called 'freedom of speech', otherwise you wouldn't have hate speech laws, libel laws, product defamation laws, anti-terror laws and even public speaking laws.

 

So you could say, in the real world, freedom of speech doesn't actually exist.

Not necessarily- or more importantly, depends where you are in the world.

I'm where I am though and I absolutely do have the right to offend you, or anyone.

 

There are many legislatives that restrict so called 'freedom of speech'

There are none that have a blanket ban on causing offense. It is something that cannot be legislated against because offense only exists in the eye of the person being offended.

 

otherwise you wouldn't have hate speech laws, libel laws, product defamation laws, anti-terror laws and even public speaking laws. So you could say, in the real world, freedom of speech doesn't actually exist.

But what you couldn't say, is what Mafia did and what I objected to, which was that "Free speech does not give you the right to offend". It absolutely does, that's one of the most important things about it. People like Mafia are not allowed to stop other people saying things just because it offends them. None of your examples are about that.

My bold= The EDL was formed in response to these events, is that what you call tolerance?

I think they're quite tolerant as is, given why they were formed,because they're not actually carrying placards calling for Muslims to be burned at the stake or hanged, drawn and quartered. And they normally only seem to march about shouting a bit and having stuff thrown at them by the UAF and assorted rabble rousers. And quite a few Muslims as happened here in Sheffield.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2014 at 18:37 ----------

 

you seem quite obsessed by Muslims its rather quite worrying

lol is this pot to kettle?

lol is this pot to kettle?

not really, you may notice from time to time i post about all sorts of things, from the weird and daft to the serious, im not obsessed by one thing

I expect that's a bit of tin hattery on your behalf, I believe do do have quite a lot of free speech in this country even tho its not enshrined in law Like the US, we don't get arrested generally for what we think either, which is my point of the thread, when does one trump the other?

when somebody acts on their thoughts and kills? or should there be an earlier safety net?

 

I don't think we do. Nick Griffin was arrested and prosecuted for saying Islam was "wicked and evil", I know he was found not guilty but he was put through the system and he shouldn't have been, that wouldn't have happened in the US.

 

Another case, Azhar Ahmed was prosecuted for saying "all soldiers should die and go to hell". He should have been able to express that opinion without have the full weight of the state brought to bear on him.

I don't think we do. Nick Griffin was arrested and prosecuted for saying Islam was "wicked and evil", I know he was found not guilty but he was put through the system and he shouldn't have been, that wouldn't have happened in the US.

 

Another case, Azhar Ahmed was prosecuted for saying "all soldiers should die and go to hell". He should have been able to express that opinion without have the full weight of the state brought to bear on him.

 

Agree, in both instances, however if for example you were saying such things, you should have to pay the bill for any police protection you get. I certainly don't want to contribute to the bill.

 

Same goes with protests and demonstrations etc, those involved foot the bill. Not the general populace who are busy just going about their business.

on a related note ive just noticed that 4 neo nazis in austria have been sentenced in regards to their views, speeches and taking photos of themselves with swastikas etc

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/news/international-news/four-sentenced-for-neo-nazi-acts

in austria its prohibited, anything to do with nazism, its sort of the opposite of what i spoke of in my op

 

in the op, freedoms are kept intact and people die

in this case, peoples freedoms are curtailed even tho theres no danger to others (or is there? if left could it fester and grow more dangerous?) is what austria doing, and i believe germany does too, right?

 

---------- Post added 07-07-2014 at 18:41 ----------

 

and tbh this article surprised me

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/news/domestic-news/southampton-student-%E2%80%98plotted-cyanide-attack%E2%80%99

 

a man in southampton arrested by counter terrorism police due to plot to kill non arayans with cyanide, apparently he had the required compounds etc too and documentation

seems like terrorists on both sides of the fence are plotting away

An honest, truthful look inside being inside and leaving the neo nazi movement in the US

I know it's of a different scale to the above, however I thought it was interesting when the debate about the alleged radicalisation and take over of Birmingham schools a few weeks ago, the mainstream media ignored the 50 fundamentalist Christian schools in England which teaches some pretty unsavoury ideas. I forget their name, but I seem to recall the acronym which was A.C.E(?)

 

The underlying factor here is RELIGION , yet again.We are in the 21st century , yet we still allow religious nutjobs of ALL faiths to preach their warped views and blatant lies to young , impressionable children. Why the hell are we allowing religion to be taught in schools ?