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The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

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22-10-2016, 20:17   #21
tinfoilhat
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Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
Stability without change every five years would be a dictatorship, and we all know how that ends.

---------- Post added 22-10-2016 at 19:07 ----------



No point having a say if what you say is ignored.
And I'm saying stability in some areas is a good thing. We are going into a period where we will have very very little stability.
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22-10-2016, 20:22   #22
Petminder
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Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
And I'm saying stability in some areas is a good thing. We are going into a period where we will have very very little stability.
Would you accept a way of doing something in a way that you disagree with in order to have stability.
 
22-10-2016, 20:26   #23
tzijlstra
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Every day since the day we joined.
Interesting point of view, can you provide a clear and precise example of that?
 
22-10-2016, 20:29   #24
Petminder
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Originally Posted by tzijlstra View Post
Interesting point of view, can you provide a clear and precise example of that?
Millions of people didn't vote to be part of the EU and they didn't vote for the laws and rules that were imposed on them.
 
22-10-2016, 20:29   #25
tinfoilhat
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Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
Would you accept a way of doing something in a way that you disagree with in order to have stability.
That's a good question. I'm not sure to be honest! It depends on the subject really. If you change things around changes will cost money. Take the NHS, public services in general I suppose. They're being cut to the quick now but in say in an election or two labour win, they'll want to pump money back in and provide more jobs (in theory) so you have to hire staff (costs money) train them (more money), pensions (more money).

Markets like stability though - just look at exchange rates post brexit. We've done nowt and they're all over the place.

I guess the country as a whole likes stability, we have had a period now of both main parties fighting over the centre (right) voter for a fair few years now, with both tinkering round the edges. We don't really do extremes.

Until now.

---------- Post added 22-10-2016 at 20:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
Millions of people didn't vote to be part of the EU and they didn't vote for the laws and rules that were imposed on them.
What laws don't you like? Do like any they've brought in?
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22-10-2016, 20:34   #26
Petminder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
That's a good question. I'm not sure to be honest! It depends on the subject really. If you change things around changes will cost money. Take the NHS, public services in general I suppose. They're being cut to the quick now but in say in an election or two labour win, they'll want to pump money back in and provide more jobs (in theory) so you have to hire staff (costs money) train them (more money), pensions (more money).

Markets like stability though - just look at exchange rates post brexit. We've done nowt and they're all over the place.

I guess the country as a whole likes stability, we have had a period now of both main parties fighting over the centre (right) voter for a fair few years now, with both tinkering round the edges. We don't really do extremes.

Until now.

---------- Post added 22-10-2016 at 20:30 ----------



What laws don't you like? Do like any they've brought in?
When the views of millions of people are ignored an extreme response is inevitable.
 
22-10-2016, 20:41   #27
tinfoilhat
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Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
When the views of millions of people are ignored an extreme response is inevitable.
I think the views of a lot of people have been ignored over the years, I just think they're kicking out at the wrong people. The EU, with its many many many faults, did a lot for disadvantaged people in this country. Some might realise that when it's gone.
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23-10-2016, 00:25   #28
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Aren't Canada negotiating access to the Single Market?


... without free movement?
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23-10-2016, 00:31   #29
tinfoilhat
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Aren't Canada negotiating access to the Single Market?


... without free movement?
And hopefully it won't take much longer than the 7 years it's taken so far.
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23-10-2016, 00:32   #30
*_ash_*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgksheff View Post
Aren't Canada negotiating access to the Single Market?


... without free movement?


Don't be ridiculous.

It's not possible to trade with anyone without free movement, no one has ever achieved this!!

-

oh hang on...
_______
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23-10-2016, 01:24   #31
Obelix
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This is (with kind permission from Medusa) a thread to replace the closed The consequence thread which was closed largely because people kept running to the moderators and asking them to take sides.
Also do remember people (and this includes me) that swearing masked with stars or other symbols is against the rules.
We've been given a second chance here people for something I know many of us want to discuss. Let's not mess it up (this includes me as I'm as much at fault as anybody).
I'm afraid I won't be joining you. As a consequence of the recent decision I wont be participating on the forum for the future.
 
23-10-2016, 01:43   #32
ez8004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *_ash_* View Post


Don't be ridiculous.

It's not possible to trade with anyone without free movement, no one has ever achieved this!!

-

oh hang on...
With very strict limitations on how much Canada can actually export into the EU. Effectively, protectionism for the EU states through the backdoor. That's all the access they can have. We want total free access which we won't get if we follow the Canadian route. So it is still true, no one has had true access to the single market without the free movement of people.
 
23-10-2016, 08:06   #33
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I'm afraid I won't be joining you. As a consequence of the recent decision I wont be participating on the forum for the future.
That's a great shame. I do understand though.
 
23-10-2016, 09:00   #34
Gamston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgksheff View Post
Aren't Canada negotiating access to the Single Market?


... without free movement?
Yes they are. A figure of 98% tariff free access has been negotiated, which will rise to 99% tariff free access.

The UK should be able to negotiate at least a similar very high percentage free access to the single market. I wouldn't have a problem if the UK was to agree to a 15% tariff on Scottish Whisky as a sweetener in order to achieve 99% tariff free access to the single market.
 
23-10-2016, 11:20   #35
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Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
Millions of people didn't vote to be part of the EU and they didn't vote for the laws and rules that were imposed on them.
That isn't what I asked, I asked if you could give an example of UK citizens being ignored by the EU.
 
23-10-2016, 11:51   #36
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Originally Posted by tzijlstra View Post
And as I have pointed out before - the UK government could have blocked the EU from implementing it, would it have chosen to do so
Sorry missed this before:
One UK government had the opportunity to block it and didnt'. Later governments are then bound by that. This is not acceptable.
At each general election, parliament seeks a new mandate from the people which must include the option to overturn all policy. If such policy it locked by EU membership, this is lost.
As I say. Volatile, but accountable.

You cannot have accountability and stability. I understand that there are advantages to stability, and I don't care. It's not worth the sacrifice of accountability.
 
23-10-2016, 12:59   #37
Petminder
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Originally Posted by tzijlstra View Post
That isn't what I asked, I asked if you could give an example of UK citizens being ignored by the EU.
One of many but probably the most obvious.

Free movement of people.
 
23-10-2016, 13:18   #38
LeMaquis
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Originally Posted by Petminder View Post
One of many but probably the most obvious.

Free movement of people.
Free movement of people was part of the original Treaty of Rome. This was agreed to by the people of the UK in 1975 when they voted to remain in the then EEC. So the EU could hardly be ignoring the people of the UK when the people of the UK voted for it.

---------- Post added 23-10-2016 at 13:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeliever View Post
At each general election, parliament seeks a new mandate from the people which must include the option to overturn all policy.
Do you know how long it would take any government to overturn all policy? Well the answer is at lot longer than the 5 years of any government.
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23-10-2016, 13:28   #39
Petminder
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Originally Posted by LeMaquis View Post
Free movement of people was part of the original Treaty of Rome. This was agreed to by the people of the UK in 1975 when they voted to remain in the then EEC. So the EU could hardly be ignoring the people of the UK when the people of the UK voted for it.

---------- Post added 23-10-2016 at 13:19 ----------



Do you know how long it would take any government to overturn all policy? Well the answer is at lot longer than the 5 years of any government.
It was agreed by some of the British people, the rest were ignored. Now its time to ignore the wished of those people that voted remain.
 
23-10-2016, 13:28   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeliever View Post
Sorry missed this before:
One UK government had the opportunity to block it and didnt'. Later governments are then bound by that. This is not acceptable.
At each general election, parliament seeks a new mandate from the people which must include the option to overturn all policy. If such policy it locked by EU membership, this is lost.
As I say. Volatile, but accountable.
that may be nice in a theoretical sense but the reality of life is that some decisions in one parliament which will have an effect long into the future.
_______
Very funny Scotty, now beam down the uniform
 
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