melthebell   862 #997 Posted January 19, 2018 I know that you're all bursting to know what they are, so here are the 31 genders that can win you a $25k fine if you get it wrong in NYC. Bi-gendered Cross-dresser Drag King Drag Queen Femme Queen Female-to-Male FTM Gender Bender Genderqueer Male-to-Female MTF Non-Op HIJRA Pangender Transexual/Transsexual Trans Person Woman Man Butch Two-Spirit Trans Agender Third Sex Gender Fluid Non-Binary Transgender Androgyne Gender Gifted Gender Blender Femme Person of Transgender Experience Androgynous  Learn the list, it's coming.  There are still only two sexes though, male and female. so that list basically includes various names for transgender people? OO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ENG601PM Â Â 10 #998 Posted January 26, 2018 so that list basically includes various names for transgender people? OO Â I believe that it is more complicated than that but there are only 2 sex equivalents on that list - male / man and female / woman. Â If somebody wishes to be called a butch instead of a woman then personally I think they have a screw loose and should be sat down and given a good talking to, but it takes all sorts and I have no objection to somebody having a screw loose if it doesn't affect me. Â When it does affect me I have a problem, and that is the crux of gender fluidity. That list of 31 recognised genders says to me that some people have an extraordinary sense of entitlement if they wish to have legal recognition of a character trait that is as legally relevant as the colour of their hair, or the length of their fingernails. Â I've never heard a valid reason why genders should have legally protected status but maybe somebody can convince me otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #999 Posted January 26, 2018 I believe that it is more complicated than that but there are only 2 sex equivalents on that list - male / man and female / woman.  If somebody wishes to be called a butch instead of a woman then personally I think they have a screw loose and should be sat down and given a good talking to, but it takes all sorts and I have no objection to somebody having a screw loose if it doesn't affect me.  When it does affect me I have a problem, and that is the crux of gender fluidity. That list of 31 recognised genders says to me that some people have an extraordinary sense of entitlement if they wish to have legal recognition of a character trait that is as legally relevant as the colour of their hair, or the length of their fingernails.  I've never heard a valid reason why genders should have legally protected status but maybe somebody can convince me otherwise.  When has it ever effected you - and how was it a problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ENG601PM Â Â 10 #1000 Posted January 26, 2018 When has it ever effected you - and how was it a problem? Â It hasn't and it isn't except in the context being discussed. That is kind of the whole point. Now read the rest of the paragraph because it hasn't affected them either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #1001 Posted January 26, 2018 It hasn't and it isn't except in the context being discussed. That is kind of the whole point. Now read the rest of the paragraph because it hasn't affected them either.  Isn't that for them to decide rather than you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ENG601PM Â Â 10 #1002 Posted January 26, 2018 Isn't that for them to decide rather than you? Â You really should remember what I've written before responding with that kind of virtue signalling nonsense. I'll help you out this time Cyclone. Â Mental illness is a complex thing and I read your reply as still being a bit old fashioned and stigmatised. My approach is to accept that illnesses, physical, mental, emotional, whatever, are many and complex things and not at all taboo and hope that my enlightened approach will rub off on people who are stuck in the days of a little boy with calipers and a hole in his head collecting for the Spastics. Â Illnesses are abnormalities though, and restoration to normality is undoubtedly what people prefer on the whole. No amount of pretending that illness is normal will stop it being taboo but the reverse is true. It's like the 12 step plan; step 1 is to recognise you have a problem, then you can start dealing with it. Show me somebody that is happy with their illness and you are showing me somebody who is abnormal. Â there really are only two sexes and a syndrome does not create an additional sex, so sorry, there are still only two sexes plus abnormalities. I am not labelling anyone, it is just a statement of simple fact. There is no science to say otherwise that I am aware of. Career or life success does not stop them being ill, or vice versa, that's just a strawman argument. Â Fill your boots with genders, I'm very content with that notion and will respect it within reason. Did you know that NYC recognises over 30 genders? Personally I think that's a reason to stop talking about gender, not a reason to have longer forms. Â Identity politics - now THAT is a disease! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #1003 Posted January 26, 2018 You really should remember what I've written before responding with that kind of virtue signalling nonsense. I'll help you out this time Cyclone.  I'm not Cyclone, but I'm happy to let that slide.  So you're claiming that mentally ill people have no ability to decide what they want or how they want to be treated?  Is that it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ENG601PM   10 #1004 Posted January 26, 2018 I'm not Cyclone, but I'm happy to let that slide. So you're claiming that mentally ill people have no ability to decide what they want or how they want to be treated?  Is that it?  No. The opposite really if you read it.    You really aren't Cyclone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #1005 Posted January 26, 2018 No. The opposite really if you read it.   You really aren't Cyclone? LOL erm hes never been Cyclone Theres a world of difference Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
marymalade   10 #1006 Posted January 26, 2018 I've never heard a valid reason why genders should have legally protected status but maybe somebody can convince me otherwise.  Because you can (and many many people are) be discriminated against on the basis of your gender identity. For what it's worth, I am a trans woman and I don't know of anyone who is demanding they refer to their gender as 'butch' on pain of $25k fine.  ---------- Post added 26-01-2018 at 12:22 ----------  For the record, kids have far fewer hangups about gender, and gender expression than adults do. Perhaps we should take a leaf out of their book Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ENG601PM   10 #1007 Posted January 26, 2018 Because you can (and many many people are) be discriminated against on the basis of your gender identity. For what it's worth, I am a trans woman and I don't know of anyone who is demanding they refer to their gender as 'butch' on pain of $25k fine. ---------- Post added 26-01-2018 at 12:22 ----------  For the record, kids have far fewer hangups about gender, and gender expression than adults do. Perhaps we should take a leaf out of their book  What you've done there is to confirm there is no need for legal protection for gender to have legally protected status. That there's a list with so many fatuous gender designations with legal recourse underlines that as it's impossible to keep a competent current list of what's real. I say to take it off forms and encourage an atmosphere where it's not an issue.  For the record, I hate identity politics. I'm interested in people as themselves so I literally could not less care what gender anyone sees themselves as, right up the point where they weaponise it. I put it to you that my approach is much more productive than prosecuting people for not recognising somebody as Gender Blender or Femme Queen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ukdobby   221 #1008 Posted January 26, 2018 I'm not Cyclone, but I'm happy to let that slide. So you're claiming that mentally ill people have no ability to decide what they want or how they want to be treated?  Is that it?  Somebody mentally ill shouldn't decide what they want Hitler tried it and looked what happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...