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14-01-2018, 12:10   #61
pss60
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Originally Posted by BHRemovals View Post
we should all go the extra mile and make them as welcome as possible.
That is difficult when newspapers like the Sun, Daily Mail and Daily Express, and politicians spout out xenophobic nonsense, making out foreigners to be enemies, and people take their cue from these. Foreigners know how we think as they can readily access these outpourings of xenophobic junk on the Internet.
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14-01-2018, 14:00   #62
apelike
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 09:37 ----------

Hilarious.
By definition 50% of anything measured is below the average and 50% is above. That's pretty much what the word average means.
Yes it is hilarious as I know well what average means and you also know I do. What you fail to answer is the other point on how you has obtained the statistics on how the population have been measured for their intelligence when no survey has ever been done, as pointed out in post 52.

You stated: "I think that 50% of the population are of below average intelligence" so without statistics it is just a guess. Did you take into account that around 18% of that population is also aged 15 years or lower and will not have finished schooling? So.. can you provide any stats to back up that 50% thinking guess as it seems very dodgy?
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14-01-2018, 14:27   #63
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No survey needs to have been done. By definition in a (non homogenous) group 50% of the group will be below and 50% above the average. It's inherent in the very definition of what an average is.
I do think it, and I think it because it's a statistical certainty, a truism, it was in fact a little bit of a play on words based on what average means.
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14-01-2018, 15:15   #64
makapaka
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
No survey needs to have been done. By definition in a (non homogenous) group 50% of the group will be below and 50% above the average. It's inherent in the very definition of what an average is.
I do think it, and I think it because it's a statistical certainty, a truism, it was in fact a little bit of a play on words based on what average means.
Saying 50% will be below the average intelligence level is different to saying 50% of people have below average intelligence.
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14-01-2018, 15:27   #65
Annie Bynnol
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
No survey needs to have been done. By definition in a (non homogenous) group 50% of the group will be below and 50% above the average. It's inherent in the very definition of what an average is.
I do think it, and I think it because it's a statistical certainty, a truism, it was in fact a little bit of a play on words based on what average means.
How many arms does the average person have?
What is the average shoe size in France compared to the UK?


Just using the word average is not sufficiently accurate in describing any population. It often works in conversation only because there is context in which describes the population.

The use of "average" without qualification is at best be inaccurate, often misleading and at worst wrong and has no place in mathematics, science, etc..

Average intelligence is a ridiculously inaccurate term, at least the very flawed IQ measurement explains itself.

A "...statistical certainty..."cannot be a "...truism..." neither is there one single definition of average.

The lecturer for our computing course asked the two questions above at the very beginning of our course. She then asked us to draft routines in computer language so that the computer could come up with the answer and collected in the answers after an hour of feverish activity. She groaned then laughed.
At the end of the year she asked the same questions. We all handed in blank paper within 2 minutes. She was very pleased.
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14-01-2018, 15:34   #66
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The use of average in normal conversation simply means mean. It's quite accurate enough. If I'd wanted to say mode or median I would have.

Yes, measuring intelligence, even defining it is problematic. But whatever definition was used, and no matter how accurately it could be measured, there would be an average and 50% of the population would be below that value, and 50% above it.

Obviously number of arms is a discrete measurement, totally unlike intelligence. Unless you want to start counting the loss of a portion of arm.

Average shoe size I don't see the problem with though. If you want to use shoe size as a proxy for foot size, which isn't a discrete measurement. I don't know if it tells you much of interest though.
Foot size, like intelligence would most likely appear to as a bell curve if graphed, the french/uk bell curve might show a slight difference, so might the intelligence curve. But either way, 50% of people have feet smaller than the average, and 50% larger. (That applies to a non discrete, accurate measurement of course, not shoe size).

---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 15:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by makapaka View Post
Saying 50% will be below the average intelligence level is different to saying 50% of people have below average intelligence.
Only if you choose to misinterpret what "below average" means.
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14-01-2018, 15:55   #67
makapaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
The use of average in normal conversation simply means mean. It's quite accurate enough. If I'd wanted to say mode or median I would have.

Yes, measuring intelligence, even defining it is problematic. But whatever definition was used, and no matter how accurately it could be measured, there would be an average and 50% of the population would be below that value, and 50% above it.

Obviously number of arms is a discrete measurement, totally unlike intelligence. Unless you want to start counting the loss of a portion of arm.

Average shoe size I don't see the problem with though. If you want to use shoe size as a proxy for foot size, which isn't a discrete measurement. I don't know if it tells you much of interest though.
Foot size, like intelligence would most likely appear to as a bell curve if graphed, the french/uk bell curve might show a slight difference, so might the intelligence curve. But either way, 50% of people have feet smaller than the average, and 50% larger. (That applies to a non discrete, accurate measurement of course, not shoe size).

---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 15:35 ----------



Only if you choose to misinterpret what "below average" means.
You were talking about the level of intelligence of brexit voters though. Have you now just changed that to making pretty obvious comments on determining averages?

If not let me know what Iíve misinterpreted.
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14-01-2018, 16:13   #68
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Just read post #47 again, it's all there.
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14-01-2018, 16:23   #69
makapaka
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Just read post #47 again, it's all there.
I already had.

You were asked if you thought anyone who voted differently to you was an idiot.

You replied saying you believe 50% of people are below average intelligence.

Unless you were saying peoples intelligence was below average then your comment was totally meaningless. What was the purpose of making that point?
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14-01-2018, 17:38   #70
Bargepole23
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
The use of average in normal conversation simply means mean. It's quite accurate enough. If I'd wanted to say mode or median I would have.

Yes, measuring intelligence, even defining it is problematic. But whatever definition was used, and no matter how accurately it could be measured, there would be an average and 50% of the population would be below that value, and 50% above it.

Obviously number of arms is a discrete measurement, totally unlike intelligence. Unless you want to start counting the loss of a portion of arm.

Average shoe size I don't see the problem with though. If you want to use shoe size as a proxy for foot size, which isn't a discrete measurement. I don't know if it tells you much of interest though.
Foot size, like intelligence would most likely appear to as a bell curve if graphed, the french/uk bell curve might show a slight difference, so might the intelligence curve. But either way, 50% of people have feet smaller than the average, and 50% larger. (That applies to a non discrete, accurate measurement of course, not shoe size).

---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 15:35 ----------



Only if you choose to misinterpret what "below average" means.
If say we had a population of 10, and three of those wore size 10 shoes and seven wore size 1, the mean average shoe size is 3.7. Seventy percent of the population wear a below average shoe size.

The same can be applied to intelligence measured by IQ.

50 percent of the population would be below the median and the same above.

Last edited by Bargepole23; 14-01-2018 at 17:44.
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14-01-2018, 19:08   #71
lindylou53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Have you read about the disastrous effects that brexit is already having on science and research in the UK?

---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 09:35 ----------



I assume that I'm in the top 10% actually, although you really have to start asking "what is intelligence?" and "how do we measure that?"

---------- Post added 14-01-2018 at 09:37 ----------



Hilarious.
By definition 50% of anything measured is below the average and 50% is above. That's pretty much what the word average means.
And yes, we're talking about the mean, unless specified 'average' means mean, not mode or median.
Modesty and humility are certainly not your strong points are they?!

Last edited by medusa; 15-01-2018 at 18:49. Reason: fixed tags
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14-01-2018, 19:54   #72
Arthur Ritus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bargepole23 View Post
If say we had a population of 10, and three of those wore size 10 shoes and seven wore size 1, the mean average shoe size is 3.7. Seventy percent of the population wear a below average shoe size.

The same can be applied to intelligence measured by IQ.

50 percent of the population would be below the median and the same above.
I started doing the same thing then realized, for the median in your example the average would be 1 which would give only 3 above ave and 7 equal to the average.
Starting to think unless lucky you wouldn't necessarily get 50% each side of the ave by any of the 3 average types. Happy to be corrected.
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15-01-2018, 09:04   #73
Fogey
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Originally Posted by area 51 View Post
I assume that Fogey is going to tell me who the real culprits are at some point,if i am such a thicko then he really needs to put me on the right track with his superior intelligence.I read about quantum physics and watch all my favourite science programmes but i am obviously a complete dumpling because i voted to leave.You have to laugh.
Were you just sitting on here waiting for me to enlighten you? Do you lack the sense and intelligence required to critically research the presumptions you and others have made around the myths, half truths and outright lies?

Every leaver I have discussed the matter with has failed to back their claims up with anything other than, - it says in the newspaper (and you've guessed it, - its the Mail), or I was talking to someone in the pub, or somebody shared it on facebook. In the end it usually becomes something about too many foreigners. Every claim I have seen made by the Remain side that I have gone and researched has turned out to be well corroborated. Which I admit did surprise me.

I suggest the people you should be looking to are successive BRITISH governments and their incredibly rich donors and media backers who have vested interests in having access to cheap labour sources, who want it to be easier for bigger businesses to keep wages down, who want to erode workers rights, or further weaken the controls placed on their own industries.

Reading something doesn't make you clever, even something as technical as quantum physics, my education taught me to do something much more important, - it taught me to critically evaluate the information others were trying to spoon feed me.
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15-01-2018, 12:13   #74
LowCostPoint
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Voting brexit definitely has a wiff of xenophobia to it, that and outright idiocy.
Do we really have to list the many none white Brexiteers?
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15-01-2018, 12:17   #75
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Originally Posted by LowCostPoint View Post
Do we really have to list the many none white Brexiteers?
Do you believe that white people have a monopoly on xenophobia and idiocy?

Arguably the non-white Brexit vote was actually very smart, intending as it does to replace cheap EU labour with cheap(er) non-EU labour.
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15-01-2018, 18:16   #76
area 51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogey View Post
Were you just sitting on here waiting for me to enlighten you? Do you lack the sense and intelligence required to critically research the presumptions you and others have made around the myths, half truths and outright lies?

Every leaver I have discussed the matter with has failed to back their claims up with anything other than, - it says in the newspaper (and you've guessed it, - its the Mail), or I was talking to someone in the pub, or somebody shared it on facebook. In the end it usually becomes something about too many foreigners. Every claim I have seen made by the Remain side that I have gone and researched has turned out to be well corroborated. Which I admit did surprise me.

I suggest the people you should be looking to are successive BRITISH governments and their incredibly rich donors and media backers who have vested interests in having access to cheap labour sources, who want it to be easier for bigger businesses to keep wages down, who want to erode workers rights, or further weaken the controls placed on their own industries.

Reading something doesn't make you clever, even something as technical as quantum physics, my education taught me to do something much more important, - it taught me to critically evaluate the information others were trying to spoon feed me.
I have not once said that i voted to leave because of foreign workers,not once.My best friend is an immigrant why would i not like foreigners.I voted leave because i believe the European union to be an undemocratic organisation of unelected individuals telling us which countries we can deal with outside the eu,and imposing import taxes on these items.The eu does not seem to recognise democracy or fair world trade.The debacle of trying to deport criminals and terrorists who cost the country millions of pounds after some judge in Brussels decided it was against their human rights.Stop insinuating that everybody who voted leave is a xenophobe or racist.Most of these lies are being peddled by the young and especially the millennial champagne socialists.And on a note i do not read the Daily Mail or any other newspaper,i have better things to spend money on than newspapers.

Last edited by area 51; 15-01-2018 at 18:19.
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15-01-2018, 18:17   #77
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Originally Posted by LowCostPoint View Post
Do we really have to list the many none white Brexiteers?
Do you think that not being white stops you being xenophobic?

Equal opportunities xenophobia, no need for your discrimination.

---------- Post added 15-01-2018 at 18:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogey View Post
W Do you lack the sense and intelligence required to critically research the presumptions you and others have made around the myths, half truths and outright lies?
Possibly they do.
And if not they are simply avoiding the cognitive dissonance that will come from confirming their fears that they were mislead.

---------- Post added 15-01-2018 at 18:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bargepole23 View Post
If say we had a population of 10, and three of those wore size 10 shoes and seven wore size 1, the mean average shoe size is 3.7. Seventy percent of the population wear a below average shoe size.

The same can be applied to intelligence measured by IQ.

50 percent of the population would be below the median and the same above.
That would be true if intelligence didn't follow a bell curve distribution and have a much larger sample size.

---------- Post added 15-01-2018 at 18:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by makapaka View Post
I already had.

You were asked if you thought anyone who voted differently to you was an idiot.

You replied saying you believe 50% of people are below average intelligence.

Unless you were saying peoples intelligence was below average then your comment was totally meaningless. What was the purpose of making that point?
It was a quip, a minor witticism, but some people would argue that a clear daytime sky wasn't blue if someone else said that it was.
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15-01-2018, 18:59   #78
area 51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makapaka View Post
I already had.

You were asked if you thought anyone who voted differently to you was an idiot.

You replied saying you believe 50% of people are below average intelligence.

Unless you were saying peoples intelligence was below average then your comment was totally meaningless. What was the purpose of making that point?
He was trying to insinuate that the 51.89 % who voted to leave are of below average intelligence.I think its an attempt at wit.
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15-01-2018, 19:06   #79
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Back on topic please, we already have a Brexit thread.


Thank you.
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15-01-2018, 22:39   #80
rollwithit
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Won't increased competition from oversea/EU students disadvantage the native population from getting into UNI?
Similar to the current demand on the NHS. The native population hasn't increased in size as much compared to the newcomers on top of everyone all living longer will serious illnesses that don't kill us straight away. Instead we end up needing long term palliative care. The countries infrastructure has never increased to cope with such a demand.
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