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The end of the Labour party

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View Poll Results: Where will Labour be a year from now?
Intact with Jeremy Corbyn in charge 56 32.94%
Intact with somebody else in charge 20 11.76%
Split with Corbyn running the remains of Labour 32 18.82%
Split with Corbyn running a break-away party 9 5.29%
The matter will still be unresolved 21 12.35%
The whole party will collapse 26 15.29%
Something I haven't thought of 6 3.53%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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30-08-2016, 13:26   #21
alchresearch
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Labour's Jeremy Corbyn wants high speed broadband for all. Wow, original idea there

And could he be hinting at a new national ID card scheme?


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08...acy_manifesto/
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30-08-2016, 15:01   #22
Alan Hartley
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In a way Jeremy Corbyn is saving the Labour party, bringing it back to something like what is supposed to be. Under Blair, Brown and Milliband it wasn't really a proper Labour, it was more like a slightly left of centre Tory party.
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30-08-2016, 15:10   #23
biotechpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Hartley View Post
In a way Jeremy Corbyn is saving the Labour party, bringing it back to something like what is supposed to be. Under Blair, Brown and Milliband it wasn't really a proper Labour, it was more like a slightly left of centre Tory party.
That's exactly why Blair got elected. Nobody (apart from a very small band of momentum activists) wants a 'proper' Labour party. It's totally unelectable.
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30-08-2016, 15:23   #24
BHRemovals
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This is absolute nonsense, I support Jeremy and I am not violent or extreme in any way. If Jeremy Corbyn where French, Belgian or German he would considered quite a mainstream politician but because English (not British) politics has moved so far to the right , every newspaper is portraying him as some kind of extreme left wing loony, just because he believes in the public ownership of utilities, hospitals and transport, which are still in public hands in the aforementioned countries.
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30-08-2016, 15:27   #25
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Hartley View Post
In a way Jeremy Corbyn is saving the Labour party, bringing it back to something like what is supposed to be. Under Blair, Brown and Milliband it wasn't really a proper Labour, it was more like a slightly left of centre Tory party.
I hear that a lot.
I can just about remember Kinnock. He was rather aligned with Miliband I think. Before him, Foot who I don't remember but may have been more on a par with Corbyn, I'm not sure.
But times change. Much of what Labour of the 40 or more years ago fought for has either been achieved or shown itself a failure. We can't just transpose the ideas of the '70s into todays world and expect them to work.
The Conservative party has changed enormously from the '70s. Can the Labour party of the '70s take them on. Sometimes it seems like they try to pretend that the modern Conservative party has not changed since the '70s just so that can have something they recognise to oppose.
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30-08-2016, 15:35   #26
Solomon1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Hartley View Post
In a way Jeremy Corbyn is saving the Labour party, bringing it back to something like what is supposed to be
Agreed

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 15:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHRemovals View Post
This is absolute nonsense, I support Jeremy and I am not violent or extreme in any way. If Jeremy Corbyn where French, Belgian or German he would considered quite a mainstream politician but because English (not British) politics has moved so far to the right , every newspaper is portraying him as some kind of extreme left wing loony, just because he believes in the public ownership of utilities, hospitals and transport, which are still in public hands in the aforementioned countries.
Agreed again
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30-08-2016, 15:38   #27
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHRemovals View Post
This is absolute nonsense, I support Jeremy and I am not violent or extreme in any way. If Jeremy Corbyn where French, Belgian or German he would considered quite a mainstream politician but because English (not British) politics has moved so far to the right , every newspaper is portraying him as some kind of extreme left wing loony, just because he believes in the public ownership of utilities, hospitals and transport, which are still in public hands in the aforementioned countries.
Please re-read the OP. I make it clear than only a small subset of Corbyn's supports are extreme and use unacceptable methods. I've seen nothing on this thread by anyone to suggest that you as a normal Corbyn supporter are implicated.

By the way in France, many of the hospitals are privately owned.
Ownership of German utilities is all over the place, and they run a multi-payer healthcare system, which is about 25% private insurance.
Perhaps you'd like to look up the facts for Belgium.
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30-08-2016, 15:43   #28
Solomon1
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Think BHRemovals is passing comment

At the desperate title of this thread

The Labour Party is very much BEGINNING AGAIN

Under Jeremy Corbyn, Leader of the Labour Party

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30-08-2016, 15:46   #29
alchresearch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Hartley View Post
In a way Jeremy Corbyn is saving the Labour party, bringing it back to something like what is supposed to be.
But I think the problem is that kind of party no longer has a place in modern politics, I'm not sure if it ever did - they were pretty much un-electable in the 80s.

Someone else mentioned Kinnoch - he was another loved by the people but hated by his party. And he never came close to winning, despite years of Thatcher rule and some very bad times for Britain.

Like it or not, I think this country is majority "blue" and Blair creating New Labour in 2007 realigned the political spectrum and killed off old Labour, as he was very much "Tory-Lite". Didn't Scargill start up Socialist Labour at that time?

Corbyn may have a lot of followers, especially young ones - but they'll get fed up with the fad and move onto something else.
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Last edited by alchresearch; 30-08-2016 at 15:48.
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30-08-2016, 15:49   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchresearch View Post
But I think the problem is that kind of party no longer has a place in modern politics, I'm not sure if it ever did - they were pretty much un-electable in the 80s.

Like it or not, I think this country is majority "blue" and Blair creating New Labour in 2007 realigned the political spectrum, as he was very much "Tory-Lite".

Corbyn may have a lot of followers, especially young ones - but they'll get fed up with the fad and move onto something else.
I credit Kinnock with bringing the Labour party out of the cold. He never quite managed to win, but he brought the party back from the brink. It's a real shame that the gods took John Smith before his time. I don't think Blair was needed, the real work was already done.
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30-08-2016, 15:51   #31
Solomon1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchresearch View Post
But I think the problem is that kind of party no longer has a place in modern politics
You mean a party that cares?

About the most vulnerable in society?

Rather than lining pockets

Of Corporates and the Rich?

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 15:53 ----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9EGSP-DZAg
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30-08-2016, 15:54   #32
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchresearch View Post
But I think the problem is that kind of party no longer has a place in modern politics, I'm not sure if it ever did - they were pretty much un-electable in the 80s.

Someone else mentioned Kinnoch - he was another loved by the people but hated by his party. And he never came close to winning, despite years of Thatcher rule and some very bad times for Britain.

Like it or not, I think this country is majority "blue" and Blair creating New Labour in 2007 realigned the political spectrum and killed off old Labour, as he was very much "Tory-Lite". Didn't Scargill start up Socialist Labour at that time?

Corbyn may have a lot of followers, especially young ones - but they'll get fed up with the fad and move onto something else.
It seems to me quite similar to the huge furore surrounding Nick Clegg that happened before the 2010 election, with all that 'I agree with Nick' nonsense.

A huge number of Sheffield University students went absolutely mad for him - I remember when he spoke in public he was like a new messiah to some!

They were also riding high in the polls, but come election night, they actually performed worse than they did in 2005. He then of course got in bed with the Conservatives, went back on his tuition fee pledge, and become probably the most hated politician amongst the Sheffield youth.

For a lot of them I think Corbyn has just taken his place.
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30-08-2016, 15:55   #33
Solomon1
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What a load of rubbish
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30-08-2016, 16:08   #34
biotechpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin-H View Post
It seems to me quite similar to the huge furore surrounding Nick Clegg that happened before the 2010 election, with all that 'I agree with Nick' nonsense.

A huge number of Sheffield University students went absolutely mad for him - I remember when he spoke in public he was like a new messiah to some!

They were also riding high in the polls, but come election night, they actually performed worse than they did in 2005. He then of course got in bed with the Conservatives, went back on his tuition fee pledge, and become probably the most hated politician amongst the Sheffield youth.

For a lot of them I think Corbyn has just taken his place.
Clegg mania went far beyond what Corbyn has. In 2010 Clegg's public approval rating was around +50. Corbyns is at -25. Corbyn's popularity is much, much narrower than Clegg's. That tells you something about how well Labour might do at the next election, and why Labour MPs want to get rid of him.
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30-08-2016, 16:11   #35
Solomon1
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Originally Posted by biotechpete View Post
Clegg mania went far beyond what Corbyn has. In 2010 Clegg's public approval rating was around +50. Corbyns is at -25. Corbyn's popularity is much, much narrower than Clegg's. That tells you something about how well Labour might do at the next election, and why Labour MPs want to get rid of him.
Clegg is a handsome man and he dresses well

This had large part to play in his popularity

As it did with Cameron

Celebrity politicians!
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30-08-2016, 16:15   #36
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biotechpete View Post
Clegg mania went far beyond what Corbyn has. In 2010 Clegg's public approval rating was around +50. Corbyns is at -25. Corbyn's popularity is much, much narrower than Clegg's. That tells you something about how well Labour might do at the next election, and why Labour MPs want to get rid of him.
Generally yes, Clegg was much more mainstream. Corbyn is however popular with a large number of Sheffield University students (not that that matters a jot for his fortunes).
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30-08-2016, 17:08   #37
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Originally Posted by Robin-H View Post
Generally yes, Clegg was much more mainstream. Corbyn is however popular with a large number of Sheffield University students (not that that matters a jot for his fortunes).
Clegg appealed to moderates. People who had no strong party affiliation but wanted change. It's not a new story in politics.
Corbyn on the other hand makes people who always support Labour support it with a great deal more enthusiasm. Some as we've seen are so enthused that they become quite excessively angry at his opponents. That may help a little in terms of turnout where one is already very strong, but it turns off moderates in massive numbers.

There are of course some who become emphatically enthralled with one politician and then quickly move on to another as if nothing happened.

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I am in total agreement

Clegg is getting my vote in a couple of weeks
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Originally Posted by Solomon1 View Post
Indeed

He's a really decent guy - who wants the best for community as a whole.

Not just the tiny little myopic of 'Me and mine', currently so prevalent in our capitalist ridden world

I like him

Last edited by unbeliever; 30-08-2016 at 17:13.
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30-08-2016, 17:25   #38
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Originally Posted by samssong View Post
Blair and his cronies finished us off .
Now the anti antisemitism in the party has raised its ugly head.
Quote:
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Is that a typo, or do you mean the 'anti antisemitism'?
It was indeed correct. Labour used to be anti-semitic [= against discrimination aimed at Jews]; that seems no longer to be the case.
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30-08-2016, 17:31   #39
Solomon1
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It was indeed correct. Labour used to be anti-semitic [= against discrimination aimed at Jews]; that seems no longer to be the case.
No-one believes your attempts at libel Jeff

Jeremy Corbyn, Leader of The Labour Party

Cares more and does more for humanity

Than you will EVER do

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 17:34 ----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKtTpDvnrg
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30-08-2016, 17:36   #40
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You'll find that accuracy largely negates accusations of defamation.
Of late, extreme left-wing entryists bringing their own agendas have caused an unpleasant tilt in the traditional Labour Party's axis. That last word was deliberately used.
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