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The end of the Labour party

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View Poll Results: Where will Labour be a year from now?
Intact with Jeremy Corbyn in charge 56 32.94%
Intact with somebody else in charge 20 11.76%
Split with Corbyn running the remains of Labour 32 18.82%
Split with Corbyn running a break-away party 9 5.29%
The matter will still be unresolved 21 12.35%
The whole party will collapse 26 15.29%
Something I haven't thought of 6 3.53%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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30-08-2016, 11:31   #1
unbeliever
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Having recently been compelled by circumstances which I won't go into, to spend exactly 3 days thinking about my dislike of Jeremy Corbyn, I still don't like him.
First time in coming up on 3 years as a Forum member, that I have found it necessary to spend 3 days in silent contemplation.

I have however developed a dislike of Owen Smith which is comparable in its intensity. I've come to believe that he is somebody who doesn't believe in democracy.
He's in the process of trying to remove a democratically elected leader from the Labour party. Much as I would like the democratically elected leader of the Labour party removed, it's a rather undemocratic thing to happen.
In a similar vain, he's wants to overturn the democratic will of the people by ignoring the EU referendum result.
Add to that, based on his record he in no way believes in the bulk of the policy which he now stands on, and you get a pretty good overview of the man.

Then we come back to Mr Corbyn. Now that he's "lost" the Brexit vote (by this I mean I suspect that he got the result he secretly wanted, not that he was responsible for the result); I think he believes the bulk of what he says.
Not the "kinder gentler politics" rubbish. I don't think he believes that. He's clearly to my mind not kinder or gentler, and if anything I think he's less honest, than any other mainstream politician. But I think he does believe in the policy platform on which he stands. This is a good thing, even though I personally could not agree with him less.

I remain, above all, extremely concerned by the threat to political discourse, democracy, liberty and all the things which we (across the political spectrum) hold most dear; posed by the fact that there is an extremely nasty group of Corbyn supporters on the loose who are using extreme tactics to intimidate Mr Corbyn's opponents into submission rather than using reason and proper process to achieve their goals. This group, I'm sure, is a small minority of Corbyn supporters, but they are not small enough in number to ignore.
There is no evidence that this nasty group are in any way linked to Mr Corbyn or his team, therefore I do not suggest that he is in any way in command of these extremely bad people. But he has been unable by words or actions to stop them, or even slow them down. That's pretty scary. They proclaim devotion to him, but they carry on despite his instruction not to. They must on some level believe that they are serving him, so it must be possible for him to find the words to get them to stop.
I would encourage Mr Corbyn to redouble his efforts on this matter as a matter of the utmost urgency. I make no apology for making my own inferences, which I shall not voice here, as to why a man in Mr Corbyn's position might have chosen not to do so already.

As I find both prospective leaders of the Labour party unacceptable, even as leader of the opposition, it is my sincere hope, that the Labour party is destroyed by the election process. I shall miss it, as it was useful to have the voices of the public sector unions so forcefully put in parliament. It would be a great shame to see this 100 year old institution, with a great deal to be proud of from its history destroyed. However, given the 2 leadership options on the table it is clear that the end of the party is the least worst option.

Last edited by unbeliever; 30-08-2016 at 11:39.
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30-08-2016, 11:38   #2
Jukes
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I do not think that the Momentum people will last as long as members as you and I have so our patience will be rewarded and at that time Mr Corbyn and Mr Smith will become a bad memory. I do not think that Momentum has any momentum once the hard work of being active party members needs doing. Many like me will have decided that we will not take part in helping supporters of Mr Corbyn to get elected but instead we will wait until he has gone away. Mr Smith is not worth the worry at the moment because he won't be elected and he doesn't mean anything that he says anyway.

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30-08-2016, 11:41   #3
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukes View Post
I do not think that the Momentum people will last as long as members as you and I have so our patience will be rewarded and at that time Mr Corbyn and Mr Smith will become a bad memory. I do not think that Momentum has any momentum once the hard work of being active party members needs doing. Many like me will have decided that we will not take part in helping supporters of Mr Corbyn to get elected but instead we will wait until he has gone away. Mr Smith is not worth the worry at the moment because he won't be elected and he doesn't mean anything that he says anyway.

Jukes x
It's been some years since I was a member of the Labour party, we drifted apart long before Mr Corbyn's time. But I do see its value and I mean it when I say I shall miss it.
In some ways hope that you're right and that the party comes good, but at the same time I don't want to endure this Labour party until 2020.

Last edited by unbeliever; 30-08-2016 at 11:47.
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30-08-2016, 11:47   #4
samssong
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Blair and his cronies finished us off .
Now the anti antisemitism in the party has raised its ugly head.
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30-08-2016, 11:47   #5
Jukes
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Unbeliever I am sorry I thought that you had been a Labour Party member for three years but you meant that you had been a Sheffield forum member for three years. I have noticed that there is a moderation bias towards Mr Corbyn here but that will go away too when Mr Corbyn eventually stands down.

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30-08-2016, 11:48   #6
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukes View Post
Unbeliever I am sorry I thought that you had been a Labour Party member for three years but you meant that you had been a Sheffield forum member for three years. I have noticed that there is a moderation bias towards Mr Corbyn here but that will go away too when Mr Corbyn eventually stands down.

Jukes x
My fault. I've clarified the OP since you posted.
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30-08-2016, 11:56   #7
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samssong View Post
Blair and his cronies finished us off .
Now the anti antisemitism in the party has raised its ugly head.
Is that a typo, or do you mean the 'anti antisemitism'?
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30-08-2016, 11:56   #8
Berberis
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Labour chose the wrong Miliband and the rest is history.
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30-08-2016, 12:00   #9
Jukes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berberis View Post
Labour chose the wrong Miliband and the rest is history.
Please have patience as I believe that Mr David Miliband has unfinished business with the Labour Party.

Jukes x
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30-08-2016, 12:07   #10
pacifica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berberis View Post
Labour chose the wrong Miliband and the rest is history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukes View Post
Please have patience as I believe that Mr David Miliband has unfinished business with the Labour Party.

Jukes x
That might well be true but wouldn't now be able to get through the party leadership system.
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30-08-2016, 12:10   #11
Solomon1
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Jeremy Corbyn for Prime Minister!





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30-08-2016, 12:10   #12
unbeliever
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Is there any way to get back to a normal membership fee and a one member, one vote system? Not to remove Mr Corbyn, as I would find that to be cheating, but it's likely he'll be leaving in 2020 if not before.

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 12:11 ----------

Can I suggest that we all completely ignore Solomon1. As that's the only way this thread will function.
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30-08-2016, 12:17   #13
Solomon1
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How very dare you
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30-08-2016, 12:17   #14
pacifica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeliever View Post

[/COLOR]Can I suggest that we all completely ignore Solomon1. As that's the only way this thread will function.
He would appear to be either a Momentum activist intent on getting threads removed or an idiot intent on getting threads removed. You decide.
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30-08-2016, 12:22   #15
Jukes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeliever View Post
Is there any way to get back to a normal membership fee and a one member, one vote system? Not to remove Mr Corbyn, as I would find that to be cheating, but it's likely he'll be leaving in 2020 if not before.

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 12:11 ----------

Can I suggest that we all completely ignore Solomon1. As that's the only way this thread will function.
I think that Mr Corbyns latest idea will be his downfall when he relies on his here today gone tomorrow clicktivists instead of people who knock on doors, deliver leaflets, stuff envelopes and call voters. They are very noisy but they do not actually DO anything that requires an effort and elections are only won by people who DO things to get elected. Corbyn: Digital campaigning will take Labour back to power

I save this 2010 article for these discussions. Clicktivism is ruining leftist activism

Jukes x
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30-08-2016, 12:24   #16
Solomon1
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Hee heeee!
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30-08-2016, 12:26   #17
Jukes
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Originally Posted by Solomon1 View Post
Hee heeee!
Your dancing banana will not convince one person to vote for Mr Corbyn and you have proved my point well.

Jukes x
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30-08-2016, 12:29   #18
Solomon1
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It brings me great joy

That the SF dancing banana

Is entirely MINE!!

And who people vote for

Is up to them Jukes (signed with a kiss?)
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30-08-2016, 12:45   #19
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeliever View Post
Is there any way to get back to a normal membership fee and a one member, one vote system? Not to remove Mr Corbyn, as I would find that to be cheating, but it's likely he'll be leaving in 2020 if not before.

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 12:11 ----------

Can I suggest that we all completely ignore Solomon1. As that's the only way this thread will function.
Seconded. Perhaps then we could have a sensible discussion.

Maybe after election defeat in 2020 they'll realise that continuing the vote system that lead to said defeat is unwise. I guess it depends whose interest it would be in.
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30-08-2016, 12:49   #20
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin-H View Post
Seconded. Perhaps then we could have a sensible discussion.

Maybe after election defeat in 2020 they'll realise that continuing the vote system that lead to said defeat is unwise. I guess it depends whose interest it would be in.
I've never understood why affiliated unions have voting rights at all, let alone equal rights with full members.
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