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So, smoking e-cigarettes is 95% less harmful than regular cigs!

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19-08-2015, 09:01   #1
PeteMorris
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According to Public Health England, they have now concluded (based on evidence so far) that smoking E-cigarettes is 95% less harmful than smoking 'proper' cigarettes!

They even go so far as to say, they should be prescribed on prescription as an aid to quitting. Although, I do think that's probably very unlikely, and I wouldn't agree with that anyway.

I just wonder...If everyone who currently smokes, turned to e-cigs where the government would turn for the loss in duty and tax revenue generated by smokers...

Yeah, I know....They'd save more in not having to treat smokers for medical conditions on the NHS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33978603
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19-08-2015, 09:03   #2
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Are e-cigs not taxed? If there was a wholesale shift towards them, then I expect that putting a tax on the liquid wouldn't take the government long.
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19-08-2015, 09:08   #3
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Are e-cigs not taxed? If there was a wholesale shift towards them, then I expect that putting a tax on the liquid wouldn't take the government long.
Of course they're taxed...But not with tobacco 'duty'...Oh yeah...let's fuel the trade in 'dodgy' liquid...Much easier to make, ship and smuggle than dodgy proper cigarettes.
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19-08-2015, 10:10   #4
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I didn't say it was smart, it's just the likely response if they find tax revenue falling from tobacco.

At least it's healthier though, I'd totally support it being prescribed if the cost of the prescription is less than the cost of treating all the smoking related illness. Simple cost benefit analysis.
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19-08-2015, 10:23   #5
PeteMorris
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I didn't say it was smart, it's just the likely response if they find tax revenue falling from tobacco.

At least it's healthier though, I'd totally support it being prescribed if the cost of the prescription is less than the cost of treating all the smoking related illness. Simple cost benefit analysis.
Which is one reason I don't think it will happen...At least not the prescription based model. Not least because of prescription charges. I think it's 7+ these days. The liquid is far cheaper than that. And of course, smoking, however and whenever someone begins, is a choice. Ok, in my day maybe the tobacco companies knew of the health implications, but 'we' certainly didn't. But whichever way you look at it, it's a choice.

Oh and I don't actually believe that the taxation and duty is entirely swallowed by the treatment of smoking related illness. It's not even ringfenced for that purpose, which I believe it should be...It's just a means of extracting more and more money from Joe Public.
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19-08-2015, 10:24   #6
geared
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Originally Posted by PeteMorris View Post
Of course they're taxed...But not with tobacco 'duty'...Oh yeah...let's fuel the trade in 'dodgy' liquid...Much easier to make, ship and smuggle than dodgy proper cigarettes.
I think it's quite easy to make the liquid stuff at home.

I have a few friends who make their own, just to get the taste exactly how they like it.
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19-08-2015, 10:33   #7
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Originally Posted by PeteMorris View Post
Which is one reason I don't think it will happen...At least not the prescription based model. Not least because of prescription charges. I think it's 7+ these days. The liquid is far cheaper than that. And of course, smoking, however and whenever someone begins, is a choice. Ok, in my day maybe the tobacco companies knew of the health implications, but 'we' certainly didn't. But whichever way you look at it, it's a choice.

Oh and I don't actually believe that the taxation and duty is entirely swallowed by the treatment of smoking related illness. It's not even ringfenced for that purpose, which I believe it should be...It's just a means of extracting more and more money from Joe Public.
It's not ring fenced, but the treatment of smoking related illness costs about the same as the amount the tax brings in.

Smoking initially is a choice. After you're addicted, not so much. People can currently be prescribed nicotine patches and/or gum, so why not nicotine inhalers? To make it worthwhile paying the 7 prescription charge it would have to be a prescription to last a month maybe...

---------- Post added 19-08-2015 at 10:34 ----------

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I think it's quite easy to make the liquid stuff at home.

I have a few friends who make their own, just to get the taste exactly how they like it.
Where does the liquid nicotine come from?
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19-08-2015, 10:42   #8
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
It's not ring fenced, but the treatment of smoking related illness costs about the same as the amount the tax brings in.

Smoking initially is a choice. After you're addicted, not so much. People can currently be prescribed nicotine patches and/or gum, so why not nicotine inhalers? To make it worthwhile paying the 7 prescription charge it would have to be a prescription to last a month maybe...

---------- Post added 19-08-2015 at 10:34 ----------



Where does the liquid nicotine come from?
The amount of tax and duty the treasury makes from tobacco sales, as opposed to what it spends on 'smoking related' illnesses is not clear cut. There are huge (arguable) grey areas.

Especially, as smokers tend to die earlier, therefore saving the government in social care, benefits and pensions.

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/does...treasury-29288
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19-08-2015, 11:45   #9
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Originally Posted by PeteMorris View Post
The amount of tax and duty the treasury makes from tobacco sales, as opposed to what it spends on 'smoking related' illnesses is not clear cut. There are huge (arguable) grey areas.

Especially, as smokers tend to die earlier, therefore saving the government in social care, benefits and pensions.

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/does...treasury-29288
I'm quite happy with the system as it is without the government sticking it's greedy little fingers in. I save around three grand a year having swapped to vaping, most of that money (around 75%) was in tax. I now spend around 120.
Why on earth they're now talking about licensing and prescription e-cigs is totally beyond me, without being totally sceptical.
Why on earth would e-cigs be made available on the NHS to aid people in giving up smoking ... if you want to stop smoking the health reasons and savings speak for themselves. You don't need to waste a doctor's time (which I understand, is in short supply).
Just go out and buy e-cigs ... if you can afford normal ones, you certainly can't complain about the cost of the electronic alternatives.

I reckon the government is getting a bit worried about loss of taxation revenue (due to fibbing about the cost of treating smoking related illnesses)... if the vape liquid is licensed and made available on prescription, you can bet they'll hike the prices up massively to make up their losses.
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19-08-2015, 11:52   #10
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Originally Posted by Alcoblog View Post
I'm quite happy with the system as it is without the government sticking it's greedy little fingers in. I save around three grand a year having swapped to vaping, most of that money (around 75%) was in tax. I now spend around 120.
Why on earth they're now talking about licensing and prescription e-cigs is totally beyond me, without being totally sceptical.
Why on earth would e-cigs be made available on the NHS to aid people in giving up smoking ... if you want to stop smoking the health reasons and savings speak for themselves. You don't need to waste a doctor's time (which I understand, is in short supply).
Just go out and buy e-cigs ... if you can afford normal ones, you certainly can't complain about the cost of the electronic alternatives.

I reckon the government is getting a bit worried about loss of taxation revenue (due to fibbing about the cost of treating smoking related illnesses)... if the vape liquid is licensed and made available on prescription, you can bet they'll hike the prices up massively to make up their losses.
I agree entirely...One can't help being deeply suspicious about the motives.
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19-08-2015, 12:15   #11
TJC1
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E cigs are cheating. for people who are too weak to quit and too stupid to stop spending money.
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19-08-2015, 12:16   #12
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Originally Posted by TJC1 View Post
E cigs are cheating. for people who are too weak to quit and too stupid to stop spending money.
You point being?....
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19-08-2015, 12:25   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC1 View Post
E cigs are cheating. for people who are too weak to quit and too stupid to stop spending money.
And not man enough for the proper stuff
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19-08-2015, 12:26   #14
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I agree entirely...One can't help being deeply suspicious about the motives.
If it were the reason it'd be poorly thought out though.
People may live longer and the cost of pensions and care may increase. The thing is though, pensioners spend money on stuff ... everything they spend it on is taxed. The carers pay tax on their earnings, before going out with what's left to spend on stuff that's taxed at the point of sale, let alone the manufacturers who make the product in the first place.
Very few people shuffle off this mortal coil with more than when they entered it (I can think of none at a rough count). In short, any money spent on anything by the government is recouped one way or the other ... the end balance always being the same.
As such, why does the government not just let people enjoy themselves in their infinitesimal timescale existence, rather than making so much misery ... they still get the money in the end.
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19-08-2015, 12:30   #15
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And not man enough for the proper stuff
Real men smoke Marlborough full strength and ride horses.
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19-08-2015, 12:31   #16
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E cigs are cheating. for people who are too weak to quit and too stupid to stop spending money.
Like this person?
Be careful what you do with that bucket of tar and sackful of feathers.
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19-08-2015, 12:33   #17
TJC1
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You point being?....
The point is e cig are just as likely to harm your bank balance and nicotine is still a highly addictive chemical so just quit.

And the acrid vapour that comes from some of these things, you can hardly breathe. Horrid.

---------- Post added 19-08-2015 at 11:37 ----------

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Originally Posted by Alcoblog View Post
Like this person?
Be careful what you do with that bucket of tar and sackful of feathers.
How is that the same thing? With e cig it's just a replacement, like methadone is to heroin addicts.

When I quit cigarettes. I just quit.
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19-08-2015, 13:02   #18
PeteMorris
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Originally Posted by TJC1 View Post
The point is e cig are just as likely to harm your bank balance and nicotine is still a highly addictive chemical so just quit.

And the acrid vapour that comes from some of these things, you can hardly breathe. Horrid.

---------- Post added 19-08-2015 at 11:37 ----------



How is that the same thing? With e cig it's just a replacement, like methadone is to heroin addicts.

When I quit cigarettes. I just quit.
Well that's marvellous...All hail TJC1
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19-08-2015, 13:04   #19
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Well that's marvellous...All hail TJC1
It was hard to quit. After 16 years. One of my favourite achievements.
I recommend it.
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19-08-2015, 13:08   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC1 View Post
The point is e cig are just as likely to harm your bank balance and nicotine is still a highly addictive chemical so just quit.
So why did it take you 16 years?
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