Electronic information at tram/bus stops

Funnily enough I emailed them a few weeks back and got the following response:

Thank you for your email regarding the tram stop real time displays. With regard to the length of time that the displays have been under test/ development, I appreciate that this has been an on-going process and is understandably a source of frustration for passengers. There is no simple explanation I’m afraid as a number of different issues have hampered the completion of the project, most notably problems with the various systems and software responsible for predicting the arrival times, we are currently undergoing a route cause analysis in an attempt to identify and address this problem. Please be assured that South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive and Stagecoach Supertram are working very closely with the contractors involved to find solutions and to move the project forward. I thank you for your continued patience and hope an improvement will be evident in the near future.

SYPTE awarded contracts for their supply in 2015. An independent assesment of its inadequecies(failure) is underway.

SYPTE own Supertram. It is opreated by South Yorkshire Supertram Limited a Stagecoach Group plc company with a concession to operate it until 2024.

 

The problems with tram stop displays has nothing to do with buses.

With the buses just follow some simple rules.

It is based on locating the bus by GPS and predicting its arrival.

If it shows a clock time either the bus has not got GPS or it is not running.

If it shows the time in minutes the bus will come but it will depend on the amount of traffic and could be earlier or later by several minutes.

 

Central government have changed the way it helps promotes public transport outside the massively susidised Transport for London £8 billion a year.

Instead of giving bus companies a complex discount on fuel it now gives a smaller amount to local areas to promote the use of public transport.

I would have thought the inadequacies were self evident! It is a sad indictment of the PTE that they still do not know themselves.

The question is why did SYPTE procure a system that does not work and what are they going to do about it and when? After all for the best part of 2 years according to the displays the system has been "under development" - just a shame they have achieved nothing

I do not know if anyone has traveled outside of S Yorkshire and noticed other tram systems around the world that somehow manage to predict accurately where and when the next tram is due

At the end of the day the SYPTE have taken the view that because sometimes the information is correct then they will show it - conveniently ignoring the fact that passengers have no way of knowing if it is indeed correct. Clearly for them this is better than turning off the system and admitting they have made an enormous mistake

Stagecoach in the meantime just pass the blame to the PTE and do not wish to rock the boat and happy

---------- Post added 17-10-2017 at 11:37 ----------

Funnily enough I emailed them a few weeks back and got the following response:

 

Thank you for your email regarding the tram stop real time displays. With regard to the length of time that the displays have been under test/ development, I appreciate that this has been an on-going process and is understandably a source of frustration for passengers. There is no simple explanation I’m afraid as a number of different issues have hampered the completion of the project, most notably problems with the various systems and software responsible for predicting the arrival times, we are currently undergoing a route cause analysis in an attempt to identify and address this problem. Please be assured that South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive and Stagecoach Supertram are working very closely with the contractors involved to find solutions and to move the project forward. I thank you for your continued patience and hope an improvement will be evident in the near future.

Only taken them 2 and a half years to get this far.

Time SYPTE/SYPTA took the franchise off Stagecoach.. im sure if it was operated by the Old-SYCC Councils or under the city region or whatever it would be run properly and save local tax payers money.

The SY Supertram is not run nor owned by Stagecoach as was previously stated .. it's operated by them for profit on behalf of the 4 SY Borough councils.

Yesterday seen weirdest thing yet on these tram signs.

Castle square digital info sign on eastbound platform. The purple to herdings arrived, people getting in and out. The sign said purple in 2 minutes. Then the tram left and the sign said purple in one minute. Then a minute after the tram had left it said purple one minute, little later changed to due.

But then it went back to purple one minute, little later purple two minutes. When the yellow tram actually came it went back to purple due.

If that sign were a person I say it were drunk or wasted.

They are only accurate when the trams are on time , generally speaking if it shows that the next tram is a blue a yellow comes and vice versa , you only have to watch them for 15 minutes to know how useless they are , 97% ? you obviously don't catch many trams .

I use the tram most days and I'd agree that 97% is way out. Anecdotal evidence, granted, but experience gathered on an almost daily basis ever since the system was set up. I'd put the accuracy rate at about 70%. It does seem to work better later on, when there's a less frequent service though.

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 09:59 ----------

The other week tram services were suspended from Shalesmoor to Malin Bridge/Middlewood due to an accident but the monitors continued to show the tram times as if there was no disruption. Both Stagecoach tram and SYPTE were asked to stop the displays showing trams times and to put a message that the service was suspended but neither could be bothered

That's just ridiculous. If they can't get a message out to passengers when the trams are not running altogether, what's the point at all? You don't really need a system to tell you that the trams are running on time (or thereabouts), but you really do need to know if you're stood waiting for something that has no chance of materialising any time soon.

Yesterday seen weirdest thing yet on these tram signs.

Castle square digital info sign on eastbound platform. The purple to herdings arrived, people getting in and out. The sign said purple in 2 minutes. Then the tram left and the sign said purple in one minute. Then a minute after the tram had left it said purple one minute, little later changed to due.

But then it went back to purple one minute, little later purple two minutes. When the yellow tram actually came it went back to purple due.

 

If that sign were a person I say it were drunk or wasted.

Unfortunately this is par for the course. SYPTE say that one of the reasons for this farce is:

"Added to this is the fact that the GPS equipment on the tram vehicles was not installed specifically for this project and some of it is almost 25 years old"

Makes you wonder if the brand new trams that seem to be on the purple route also can not communicate with the dot matrix.

After more than 2 years the SYPTE also say it is :

"proving equally difficult to identify exactly where the faults lie and whose responsibility it is to make improvements".

In response to numerous complaint on the subject they also say

"SYPTE has no intention of turning the system off and there remains a clear scrolling message on the display screens advising passengers that the system is still being developed"

So there you are and it was only after my intervention 2 years ago that SYPTE agreed to include wording on the displays to even tell customers that the information could not be relied upon - or in their words the system is under development

Stagecoach themselves admitted in The Star the other night that they haven't been able to run to timetables, this being the main reason behind the first changes to timetables in a decade or whatever it was?

They contribute the main reason behind their failings as an increase in the amount of cars on Sheffield roads?

I haven't used a tram in a long, long time however I have spent time sat alongside them in traffic. The road systems as a whole in Sheffield are terrible and make it near impossible for Supertram to stay on schedule.

Therefore if the running of Supertram was taken back in house, would they be able to improve things?......Well unless they work on the route cause, which is the ridiculous planning of Sheffield's roads... then I think not!

I do not think it matters who runs the trams on terms of punctuality because as sheffstats says the issue much (not all) of the time it is outside the control of the operator

However the fact that reliability is poor is all the more reason why reliable tram running information is required at tram stops

sheffstats..

What you have written is one of the main reasons an electronic system is needed so that people actually know if there is a problem or hold up. I on the other hand mainly use the tram and paying £1.5M or so for a system that does not work and probably wont is out of order. Whoever commissioned this without first looking into the details needs sacking and a public investigation held. Perhaps sending a letter to the local MP may help bring that about.

sheffstats..

 

What you have written is one of the main reasons an electronic system is needed so that people actually know if there is a problem or hold up. I on the other hand mainly use the tram and paying £1.5M or so for a system that does not work and probably wont is out of order. Whoever commissioned this without first looking into the details needs sacking and a public investigation held. Perhaps sending a letter to the local MP may help bring that about.

Allegedly SYPTE has said:

"proving equally difficult to identify exactly where the faults lie and whose responsibility it is to make improvements"

Whomever is in charge needs firing. How is it possible to be in charge of a project and not be able to have any understanding of what is going on?

As it has never given 100% reliable information since it was installed what is the justification for keeping it running? Is it merely that it would be a public admission of failure which would invite more hard questions and recriminations?

It doesn't work so turn it off please. Wrong information is worse than none at all.

Yesterday seen weirdest thing yet on these tram signs.

Castle square digital info sign on eastbound platform. The purple to herdings arrived, people getting in and out. The sign said purple in 2 minutes. Then the tram left and the sign said purple in one minute. Then a minute after the tram had left it said purple one minute, little later changed to due.

But then it went back to purple one minute, little later purple two minutes. When the yellow tram actually came it went back to purple due.

 

If that sign were a person I say it were drunk or wasted.

I was waiting for a tram one morning last week and the scrolling text underneath just repeated the word 'Junk' for about 15 minutes. I know it was that long as the tram was late and the sign was telling me the next tram time according to timetable not to the GPS locator.