Stocksbridge bus service. Why so dire?

Excellent news.

 

Stagecoach bus are trying to co-ordinate the tram link so that buses and trams connect and passengers no longer watch their connection pulling out and will hold bus when tram approaching (unfortunately they have to rely on a visual sighting as supertram can not as yet tell them when the tram will arrive)

 

Now the bad news!

 

StagecoachSupertram is not interested and are happy for their trams to leave a minute early but refuse to hold tram even when the arriving bus is clearly visible. They delight in leaving the passengers to wait

 

Please support Stagecoach bus as they try and put the link into Supertramlink and tell Stagecoach Supertram what you think of them (for those not aware Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram are separate companies)

Unless a delay is built in to the tram timetable then the trams have to run to timetable. A bus appearing on Middlewood road at departure time would cause a delay of up to 5 minutes. This would have a knock on effect on other tram routes over a long period and the travel plans of far more.

As of January there will be an increase in journey times particularly on the Middlewood route. This allows some slack but will disappear when the extra trams on the red route to Rotherham Parkgate start.

Stagecoach Bus, Stagecoach Supertram, Virgin East Coast (90%), East Midlands Trains (inc our station) are all part of Stagecoach Group plc.

I am sorry but there is no excuse for the tram departing in full view of a bus load of passengers. No one is talking about a delay of five minutes I have many times seen the people actually getting of the bus with the tram refusing to open it's doors and pulling away.

There is slack already in the timetable.

thank you for the lesson on corporate structure I am fully aware of the Stagecoach structure the point is that Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram have completely different management and use this to justify the often broken link

I am sorry but there is no excuse for the tram departing in full view of a bus load of passengers. No one is talking about a delay of five minutes I have many times seen the people actually getting of the bus with the tram refusing to open it's doors and pulling away.

 

There is slack already in the timetable.

 

thank you for the lesson on corporate structure I am fully aware of the Stagecoach structure the point is that Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram have completely different management and use this to justify the often broken link

Departure times for the tram are critical as they must arrive and depart the congestion critical bit between Shalesmoor, Cathedral and Park Square roundabout junction on time as it has the potential to impact on all three (four next year) routes. The Red route trams will have a critical appointment with the Signal Box operating the railway.

One event can magnify problems across the system delaying thousands.

The bus has no critical impact on other routes.

The buses are timed to arrive at Middlewood around 7 minutes before the departure of the tram.

Scenarios

Bus on time. Tram on time. A 6 minute wait in the tram.

Bus 2 minutes early. Previous Tram leaves leaves on time. Annoys bus users but they will not be late. All later tram users on time.

Bus arrives late. Tram departs on time. All later tram users on time. Bus users annoyed complain to Stagecoach Bus/SYPTE.

If the Tram is running late it must leave ASAP to meet its slot in the centre. Bus users annoyed because they think its their connection going early but they wont be late.

Some important reasons for having trams is capacity, relability and punctuality over that of buses which are far more flexible. All the trams are more punctual because all keep to the timetable and all can move freely through the city centre. This principle applies to all types of traffic flow. Introduce flexibility and the flow descends into chaos across the whole system. Imagine what would happen to the London Underground if the trains had to wait for connections.

Now if the tram driver closes the doors as passengers are boarding, even if there is a beeping warning, that is a very different safety related matter and the complaint could be escaleted to RAIB.

Absolutely spot on Annie Bynnol.

If the tram driver starts the signal sequence, missing that to allow a bus to connect can easily add 4 to 5 minutes delay by which time the next tram is likely waiting to enter the platform anyway. The impact of waiting for the SL on the wider tram network is greater than that felt by a smaller number of SL users. Many times it’s also a case of SL customers missing the tram they were never meant to connect with anyway. Or the SL misses its connection because of crazy traffic coming down from Oughtibridge.

As you rightly say, no excuse for doors to be closed on people if the connection between bus and tram has started!

Slightly puzzled as to how amnicoll knows there is slack in the timetable. I’m pretty sure it’s largely unchanged since the early 00’s so doubt most journey times are achievable anymore and my conversations with Supertram and their staff would strongly suggest there is zero slack in the current timetable. Think I’m inclined to believe them over someone on a forum.

Simple - trams are allowed around 6 minutes at the terminus between arrival and departure.

No change since early 00s that really says it all Stagecoach have sat back and done nothing. Most transport companies adjust their timetables to meet consumer needs/operational needs periodically

can not help feeling that Annie Bynnol and pushtotalk are Stagecoach employees as this sounds just like an operator led response trying to pull the wool

The idea that it will take 4-5 minutes extra if the tram waits for passengers when the bus is already in view is laughable

The yellow tram usually has 4 minutes not to loose it path at Hillsborough to the blue tram

A new development has been the early departure of trams (that is if they arrived on time) and Stagecoach have told me their trams are allowed to leave up to a minute early which only adds to customers anger when the driver can not be bothered to wait for them

It has often been said on the railway that they could provide a better service if their were no passengers and it would appear to be the same thinking here - lets run the trams for the benefit of the operator not the passengers

perhaps you should both head down to Middlewood and watch what happens and talk to regular travelers. Alternatively why not re brand and then no one would expect the bus and tram to link up with each other

Simple - trams are allowed around 6 minutes at the terminus between arrival and departure.

 

No change since early 00s that really says it all Stagecoach have sat back and done nothing. Most transport companies adjust their timetables to meet consumer needs/operational needs periodically

 

can not help feeling that Annie Bynnol and pushtotalk are Stagecoach employees as this sounds just like an operator led response trying to pull the wool

 

The idea that it will take 4-5 minutes extra if the tram waits for passengers when the bus is already in view is laughable

The yellow tram usually has 4 minutes not to loose it path at Hillsborough to the blue tram

 

A new development has been the early departure of trams (that is if they arrived on time) and Stagecoach have told me their trams are allowed to leave up to a minute early which only adds to customers anger when the driver can not be bothered to wait for them

 

It has often been said on the railway that they could provide a better service if their were no passengers and it would appear to be the same thinking here - lets run the trams for the benefit of the operator not the passengers

 

perhaps you should both head down to Middlewood and watch what happens and talk to regular travelers. Alternatively why not re brand and then no one would expect the bus and tram to link up with each other

Changes are coming.

To get to Oughtibridge from the leppings lane area in the evening we have to:-

Get a tram for one stop to the park and ride then get the SL1 bus, the cost and waiting for connection makes it silly

walk to the tram park and ride which is about 1/3 the distance to get the SL1 bus, might as well walk rest of way which is vetoed by h.w.m.b.o., won't go socializing in walking shoes

Walk to the Hillsborough bus interchange to get the 57, same distance wrong direction plus could probably walk to Oughtibridge in time it takes bus to go all around the houses.

Get school bus from leppings at 8 in the morning sleep on coronation park bench until pub opens.

Get taxi - preferred and probably cheapest.

Understand there will be a new timetable in January when I'm sure an extra tram will be added on yellow and possibly blue giving longer journey times , these are virtually unchanged from the late 90s when there were less passengers and much less congestion .

Departure times for the tram are critical as they must arrive and depart the congestion critical bit between Shalesmoor, Cathedral and Park Square roundabout junction on time as it has the potential to impact on all three (four next year) routes. The Red route trams will have a critical appointment with the Signal Box operating the railway.

One event can magnify problems across the system delaying thousands.

 

The bus has no critical impact on other routes.

 

The buses are timed to arrive at Middlewood around 7 minutes before the departure of the tram.

 

Scenarios

Bus on time. Tram on time. A 6 minute wait in the tram.

Bus 2 minutes early. Previous Tram leaves leaves on time. Annoys bus users but they will not be late. All later tram users on time.

Bus arrives late. Tram departs on time. All later tram users on time. Bus users annoyed complain to Stagecoach Bus/SYPTE.

If the Tram is running late it must leave ASAP to meet its slot in the centre. Bus users annoyed because they think its their connection going early but they wont be late.

 

Some important reasons for having trams is capacity, relability and punctuality over that of buses which are far more flexible.

You make a good point for Stagecoach running the buses through to Sheffield, or at least Hillsborough, as you have said the tram is inflexible and waiting for fare paid passengers might affect the takings of other passengers later on the route.

Simple - trams are allowed around 6 minutes at the terminus between arrival and departure.

 

No change since early 00s that really says it all Stagecoach have sat back and done nothing. Most transport companies adjust their timetables to meet consumer needs/operational needs periodically

 

can not help feeling that Annie Bynnol and pushtotalk are Stagecoach employees as this sounds just like an operator led response trying to pull the wool

 

The idea that it will take 4-5 minutes extra if the tram waits for passengers when the bus is already in view is laughable

The yellow tram usually has 4 minutes not to loose it path at Hillsborough to the blue tram

 

A new development has been the early departure of trams (that is if they arrived on time) and Stagecoach have told me their trams are allowed to leave up to a minute early which only adds to customers anger when the driver can not be bothered to wait for them

 

It has often been said on the railway that they could provide a better service if their were no passengers and it would appear to be the same thinking here - lets run the trams for the benefit of the operator not the passengers

 

perhaps you should both head down to Middlewood and watch what happens and talk to regular travelers. Alternatively why not re brand and then no one would expect the bus and tram to link up with each other

During normal service trams depart every ten minutes and the bus arrive every 10 minutes. To maximise the possibility of walking onto a tram on bus arrival, the bus is timetabled to arrive about 7 minutes before tram departure.

It is not possible to run a city wide frequent tram service which is governed by tram departures based on the arrival of buses at Middlewood.

There have been many studies made on why heavily used bus frequencies become chaotic and result in them catching up with each other even when availability and road speed etc. are normal. There is no definitive solution, but you must prevent the knock on effect on the tram system which do not on the whole create their own chaos.

Modern integrated urban transport systems aim for a clockface timetable which has very many advantages for customer and operator. So when the bus arrives in Middlewood on time you know that you have a 5 minute wait on the tram before it leaves. If the bus is a little bit late you can still get on that tram. If the bus is even later you will have less than 10 minutes to wait.

Increased availability of new trams, increased maintenance of old trams and track, the need to add a tram route with critical time issues will all have an effect.

You cannot have a situation a situation like this where the yellow tram route times are effected by buses arriving late at Middlewood. The late yellow tram delays a red tram which arrives late at Rotherham delaying a Doncaster train which arrives at Swinton late which delays trains going to Leeds, Edinburgh, Bristol etc. This is of course a ridiculous but the same principle applies to me every time I combine a journey on public transport.

When I catch the SL1 from Oughtibridge, a yellow tram and then the 52/52a to Crookes I know that a late bus means a later tram and a later bus. If I work to that possibilty I don't get upset.

Frustrating as it is in seeing a tram leave when you are running late on Middlewood Road in normal running you will have less than 10 minutes to wait.

On the other hand:

When services are much less frequent or at the beginning or end of service then it should be an obligation on the operators of the bus and tram to run a guaranteed connection on penalty of finacial compensation and or a free taxi to take you to your destination as happens on the Railway. This will force both bus and tram operation a more reliable and resiliant service at these times.

I don't think the new route will be red as it is illegal to display a red light at the front of a vehicle , SYT fell into that trap with the FASTLINE destination which couldn't use for this reason .

Simple - trams are allowed around 6 minutes at the terminus between arrival and departure.

 

No change since early 00s that really says it all Stagecoach have sat back and done nothing. Most transport companies adjust their timetables to meet consumer needs/operational needs periodically

 

can not help feeling that Annie Bynnol and pushtotalk are Stagecoach employees as this sounds just like an operator led response trying to pull the wool

 

The idea that it will take 4-5 minutes extra if the tram waits for passengers when the bus is already in view is laughable

The yellow tram usually has 4 minutes not to loose it path at Hillsborough to the blue tram

 

A new development has been the early departure of trams (that is if they arrived on time) and Stagecoach have told me their trams are allowed to leave up to a minute early which only adds to customers anger when the driver can not be bothered to wait for them

 

It has often been said on the railway that they could provide a better service if their were no passengers and it would appear to be the same thinking here - lets run the trams for the benefit of the operator not the passengers

 

perhaps you should both head down to Middlewood and watch what happens and talk to regular travelers. Alternatively why not re brand and then no one would expect the bus and tram to link up with each other

Someone comes across as embittered with an axe to grind