Gender Fluid etc, Opinions?

You didn't claim to just respect their right to say it though.

If i must spell it out...

They have the right to claim they are gender fluid, which i respect.

I have the right to think it's bull...

---------- Post added 24-05-2018 at 22:20 ----------

Just because they have had their meat and 2 veg cut off doesn't make them female,they may say they are but they're not.

So the tranny jockey this morning,just looks like a bloke in women's clothing.

I agree.

My point is simply that, if someone wants to 'identify' as something, that's fine. I respect their right, under the law, to live appropriately.

However, i have a right to think it's rubbish, without also infringing on their right to live as they want.

I think many laws are a bit pointless, but i still show them respect.

It just appears that some can't get over someone having a differing opinion with seeing them as a bigot.

Yes, I'm glad you've spelled it out. So you don't respect the choice of gender. You think it's nonsense and you make a judgement for yourself.

That's NOT respecting someone choice of gender, which has been my point for quite a few pages now.

Depending on your behaviour you might infringe on how they want to live, they want to have their gender accepted, and you don't, you think it's BS. If you express that in any way to them, then you're impacting on their life. So if you tell them you don't believe, if you call them 'he/she' contrary to their wishes, if you refuse to call them by some new name they adopt, these are all infringing on how they live their life.

You seem to think your opinion is separate from you somehow. In the example you used "I don't like black people" (I know it's just an example, don't worry), that opinion would make that person racist. In this case, a refusal to accept gender change or gender fluidity makes you something. Bigot is a bit of a broad term, but I can't think of a more specific one that applies.

---------- Post added 25-05-2018 at 07:33 ----------

So here's a question. Should male athletes who identify as women compete against female athletes?

Only once they've had medical procedures such that they have no competitive advantage.

There is of course the relatively famous case recently of the boy, recently transitioned from being a girl, the authorities won't let him compete in the male wrestling.

To make his point he competes in the girls wrestling, and wins the national championship. He doesn't want to, he doesn't think it's fair, he has hormonal treatment and is built like a young male, with commensurate strength for that.

You seem to think your opinion is separate from you somehow. In the example you used "I don't like black people" (I know it's just an example, don't worry), that opinion would make that person racist. In this case, a refusal to accept gender change or gender fluidity makes you something. Bigot is a bit of a broad term, but I can't think of a more specific one that applies.

 

I don't completely agree with you on this. One can say "I don't like black people" in context of appearance, sexual preference, music/culture, etc without actually considering them inferior, treating them poorly or with prejudice.

Similar with gender change - one can accept and respect gender change, treat the person fairly and address her/him as she/he wants but personally perceive them differently.

One doesn't have to like everything, does he/she?

I don't completely agree with you on this. One can say "I don't like black people" in context of appearance, sexual preference, music/culture, etc without actually considering them inferior, treating them poorly or with prejudice.

 

Similar with gender change - one can accept and respect gender change, treat the person fairly and address her/him as she/he wants but personally perceive them differently.

 

One doesn't have to like everything, does he/she?

It's not a case of liking everything, the poster concerned perceives gender change as 'BS'.

That may be wilful ignorance based on prejudice, considering that gender dysphoria is a recognised condition.

Only once they've had medical procedures such that they have no competitive advantage.

Do you know of such a medical procedure that will turn a male into a female for such a purpose?

It's not a case of liking everything, the poster concerned perceives gender change as 'BS'.

 

That may be wilful ignorance based on prejudice, considering that gender dysphoria is a recognised condition.

No, i consider gender-fluidity as BS.

I'm fine with the notion of someone actually transitioning - a man feels that he is actually a woman and goes through surgery and hormone treatment to transition and they become, to all intents, a woman, i get that.

If someone looks male, has a deep voice and dresses in a masculine way, i will initially interact with them as though they are male. What i have a problem with is if said person then claims i'm being 'phobic' for 'assuming' their gender if they identify as 'fluid'. If they want me to use their preferred pronoun, so be it, i'll respect their right to request that of me... but i'll still think it's BS.

They still have the right to be treated as a human being even if i disagree with them.

Do you know of such a medical procedure that will turn a male into a female for such a purpose?

Hormone therapy. The difference in testosterone accounts for the majority of the difference in strength between men and women.

---------- Post added 25-05-2018 at 12:40 ----------

 

One doesn't have to like everything, does he/she?

As SnailyBoy said, there's a big difference between liking or not liking something and declaring the entire thing to be made up.

I don't see how you can claim to respect someone being gender fluid if you've decided that being gender fluid is made up and thus the person is lying or deluded.

No, i consider gender-fluidity as BS.

 

I'm fine with the notion of someone actually transitioning - a man feels that he is actually a woman and goes through surgery and hormone treatment to transition and they become, to all intents, a woman, i get that.

 

If someone looks male, has a deep voice and dresses in a masculine way, i will initially interact with them as though they are male. What i have a problem with is if said person then claims i'm being 'phobic' for 'assuming' their gender if they identify as 'fluid'. If they want me to use their preferred pronoun, so be it, i'll respect their right to request that of me... but i'll still think it's BS.

 

They still have the right to be treated as a human being even if i disagree with them.

Have you really experienced that?

Hormone therapy. The difference in testosterone accounts for the majority of the difference in strength between men and women.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2018 at 12:40 ----------

 

 

As SnailyBoy said, there's a big difference between liking or not liking something and declaring the entire thing to be made up.

I don't see how you can claim to respect someone being gender fluid if you've decided that being gender fluid is made up and thus the person is lying or deluded.

Hormone therapy alters secondary sexual characteristics.

Have you really experienced that?

Not being called 'phobic', but we had someone work with us as a temp for a few months who was gender fluid. The first day they came in, they were dressed more masculine, had stubble and a deep voice. They had long hair, but having a Meatloaf t-shirt on, i assumed that it was because they were a rock/metal fan.

So, as far as anyone could tell, they were male... but they used a female name.

Remembering the name wasn't an issue, but it was hard to remember to call them she/her etc. because my brain was talking to and about a male. I know, i know, people will claim it's my issue, and that's as maybe, but it does mess with your head.

We actually got on really well, and they never pulled me up when i called them mate or dude, like i do for most men.

I see a conflict behind you claiming to respect something whilst not agreeing that it's real or believing it.

I see nothing wrong with and no need for conflict with both respecting something and not agreeing with it. Nor do I see any bigotry either.

Any that think differently I believe are are just looking for an argument.

Hormone therapy. The difference in testosterone accounts for the majority of the difference in strength between men and women.

Which hormone therapy is this that can reduce a male's muscle mass and cardiovascular capacity to that if a female?

Can you link us to such an example of this therapy?