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13-09-2017, 13:16   #301
alchresearch
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Unisex toilets were trialed in some BSF schools in the beginning. They soon dropped them.
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13-09-2017, 13:31   #302
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Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
They'd queue in the same queue for a coffee, or fish and chips so why not a toilet?
It's not just about the queues, it's about once you're in there and a person's perceived sense of safety. Generally, I would assume that most women would prefer to use facilities with other women as they would feel intimidated by men using them due to the fact that women have an extra level of personal care that men don't have.

In this argument men get a bit of a raw deal as, based on everything I've read and seen about this, much of the assumption is that men are aggressive creatures and would feel this is a license to commit crimes of a sexual nature against women. Likewise, gender fluid people have the assumption that men would be aggressive towards them for being gender fluid and would commit an act of violence against them.

Now, I admit that there is this possibility but, as I've said in a previous post, what's to stop someone who claims to be gender fluid entering a women's toilet and committing a crime? I'm not saying it would happen on a massive scale, but you're getting a bit of a rock/paper/scissors issue where one trumps the other etc.

Then we get in to the argument of whether it's safety or segregation... and the debate continues...
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13-09-2017, 14:58   #303
Jacko92
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Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
Fair comment. I just don't see old people in general happy about mixing with the opposite sex in toilets. I assuming there will still be urinals in these unibogs or they'll have to be massive.
I've been in loads of bars/cafes/restaurants in Europe that had unisex toilets.
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13-09-2017, 15:01   #304
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Originally Posted by Jacko92 View Post
I've been in loads of bars/cafes/restaurants in Europe that had unisex toilets.
*Sigh* Another example of progressive Europe vs backwards UK?
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13-09-2017, 15:03   #305
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Originally Posted by Flexo View Post
*Sigh* Another example of progressive Europe vs backwards UK?
Or that Europeans aren't quite so prudish about taking a pee?
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13-09-2017, 15:49   #306
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
It's not just about the queues, it's about once you're in there and a person's perceived sense of safety. Generally, I would assume that most women would prefer to use facilities with other women as they would feel intimidated by men using them due to the fact that women have an extra level of personal care that men don't have.

In this argument men get a bit of a raw deal as, based on everything I've read and seen about this, much of the assumption is that men are aggressive creatures and would feel this is a license to commit crimes of a sexual nature against women. Likewise, gender fluid people have the assumption that men would be aggressive towards them for being gender fluid and would commit an act of violence against them.

Now, I admit that there is this possibility but, as I've said in a previous post, what's to stop someone who claims to be gender fluid entering a women's toilet and committing a crime? I'm not saying it would happen on a massive scale, but you're getting a bit of a rock/paper/scissors issue where one trumps the other etc.

Then we get in to the argument of whether it's safety or segregation... and the debate continues...
Nothing at all; but then there's nothing to stop anybody of any persuasion from entering a women's toilet and committing a crime is there? It's a total red herring.
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13-09-2017, 17:52   #307
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Nothing at all; but then there's nothing to stop anybody of any persuasion from entering a women's toilet and committing a crime is there? It's a total red herring.
Granted, it's an extreme example, but i wouldn't say it's a total red herring.
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13-09-2017, 18:16   #308
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Originally Posted by Weazel2006 View Post
Rather than becoming more free to express, history is repeating itself as always. I am a male, I was born male and will die male.

I would also play dolls with my daughter if that was her thing, as it turns out she enjoys playing with cars and streaming games online.

This whole construct of gender fluidity is a creation by confused children trying to find their identity. I do believe gender should be little obstacle to activity and inclusion but this gender fluid thing is pretty strange.

Apart from some animals every species has 2 genders, male and female and that is the way of it, once you start ignoring that fact and push that ideaology on others (and it happens alot) you are inching closer and closer to facism as has been shown in recent years with feminism.

A free and fair society should be inclusive of all, that does not mean you have the right to dictate the views of society as a whole and go on the attack when someone does not agree with your new trend.
I have been hearing a lot on this topic and I'm wondering if different people have differing definitions of gender.

Its not quite as cut and dried as two sexes, male and female. I consider gender to be the result of genotype (genetic make up) and phenotype (physical characteristics), and the way / 'sex' someone perceives themselves to be.

Human biology is complex. Not everyone is genetically X0 or XX, you can be a mosaic or you could be typical genotype but the embryo doesn't respond to hormones correctly or have some other genetic issue which causes a genetically male foetus to develop into a female or vice versa. Therefore I agree there is a third gender.

I don't see how gender can be fluid though. Surely someone has a gender identity that doesn't need to change daily. Its nothing to do with the way someone wants to act or dress, in my opinion anyway. Its how the person feels they are ie if they feel male (or female) and whether their body fits that feeling or if they need to change it to fit they way they feel. Everything else is irrelevant. You don't need to be a certain gender to act or dress a certain way.

I have been mainly in classes of boys through my school education, often only one other female through collage due to my choice of subjects. I started work back in the day when they didn't have ladies changing rooms in my industry. I've worn mens work uniforms, overalls and boots for that reason. Done 'mens' jobs but that doesn't make me masculine or want to be a male. That's why I don't see why people make such a big thing of it. I'm following this thread with interest.

Last edited by Chez2; 13-09-2017 at 18:32.
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13-09-2017, 19:13   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chez2 View Post
I have been hearing a lot on this topic and I'm wondering if different people have differing definitions of gender.

Its not quite as cut and dried as two sexes, male and female. I consider gender to be the result of genotype (genetic make up) and phenotype (physical characteristics), and the way / 'sex' someone perceives themselves to be.

Human biology is complex. Not everyone is genetically X0 or XX, you can be a mosaic or you could be typical genotype but the embryo doesn't respond to hormones correctly or have some other genetic issue which causes a genetically male foetus to develop into a female or vice versa. Therefore I agree there is a third gender.

I don't see how gender can be fluid though. Surely someone has a gender identity that doesn't need to change daily. Its nothing to do with the way someone wants to act or dress, in my opinion anyway. Its how the person feels they are ie if they feel male (or female) and whether their body fits that feeling or if they need to change it to fit they way they feel. Everything else is irrelevant. You don't need to be a certain gender to act or dress a certain way.

I have been mainly in classes of boys through my school education, often only one other female through collage due to my choice of subjects. I started work back in the day when they didn't have ladies changing rooms in my industry. I've worn mens work uniforms, overalls and boots for that reason. Done 'mens' jobs but that doesn't make me masculine or want to be a male. That's why I don't see why people make such a big thing of it. I'm following this thread with interest.
So what is this third gender? If the person has male and female traits, physically or mentally, then how is that a third gender? They're just somewhere on the spectrum between male and female... for there to be a third gender, there would have to be a third ingredient, surely?
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13-09-2017, 20:10   #310
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
So what is this third gender? If the person has male and female traits, physically or mentally, then how is that a third gender? They're just somewhere on the spectrum between male and female... for there to be a third gender, there would have to be a third ingredient, surely?
How is it hard to understand? My dad is black, my mum is white, I am neither.*

Now assume the same for gender.

*this isn't true but works for illustrative purposes.
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13-09-2017, 21:11   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko92 View Post
How is it hard to understand? My dad is black, my mum is white, I am neither.*

Now assume the same for gender.

*this isn't true but works for illustrative purposes.
No, because there are many races that could be part of your make up...

There are only 2 sexes... so there are only 2 genders...
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13-09-2017, 21:26   #312
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
No, because there are many races that could be part of your make up...

There are only 2 sexes... so there are only 2 genders...
Are you being obtuse on purpose? What if there were only two races?
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13-09-2017, 21:39   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko92 View Post
Are you being obtuse on purpose? What if there were only two races?
What are the only 2 races?

Put it this way... if a white person listens to 'black' music and then claims to be black, are they black?
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Last edited by leviathan13; 13-09-2017 at 21:42.
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13-09-2017, 21:42   #314
Jacko92
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
What are the only 2 races?
What does the word "if" mean? It was an analogy and you haven't grasped it.

I give up.
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13-09-2017, 21:45   #315
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Originally Posted by Jacko92 View Post
What does the word "if" mean? It was an analogy and you haven't grasped it.

I give up.
That was my point - you're being hypothetical; you know there are more than two races so the mixing of genes can be more varied than the mixing of chromosomes. Your point falls down instantly because you're trying to use the same rules for two different arguments.
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13-09-2017, 21:51   #316
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
That was my point - you're being hypothetical; you know there are more than two races so the mixing of genes can be more varied than the mixing of chromosomes. Your point falls down instantly because you're trying to use the same rules for two different arguments.
I didn't claim it was a perfect analogy.

Why do you care so much?
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13-09-2017, 21:52   #317
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Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
I've said before that unisex loos are the way to go. The logic behind separated mens and womens toilets was due to an assumed sexual attraction between men and women and that might be uncomfortable for some people, fine. But how does that work in gay clubs? Are gay men uncomfortable peeing next to a guy they might fancy? Are lesbians worried that the girl they've been chatting up all night might hear them pee? It's a bit daft when you think about it. I've been to several gay clubs where they have unisex toilets and no-one even bats an eyelid about it.

However in favour of a third gender neutral toilet would mean I could use it with the same level of guilt when I nip to the disabled if there's a massive queue for the ladies. Win all round I say
I was down in the south last week and the toilet block in the town centre had one mens urinal block and the rest of the cubicles were unisex.It saved everybody waiting for the gents or ladies.
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13-09-2017, 21:59   #318
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Originally Posted by Jacko92 View Post
I didn't claim it was a perfect analogy.

Why do you care so much?
Because it's something i've read and watched a lot about and i've found to be interesting. I may not agree and i may be very sceptical about gender fluidity, but it's a topic i enjoy debating.

Many people having their own opinions on the subject means that it creates a healthy discussion that i've enjoyed being part of.

Why do you care?
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13-09-2017, 22:05   #319
Jacko92
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Originally Posted by leviathan13 View Post
Because it's something i've read and watched a lot about and i've found to be interesting. I may not agree and i may be very sceptical about gender fluidity, but it's a topic i enjoy debating.

Many people having their own opinions on the subject means that it creates a healthy discussion that i've enjoyed being part of.

Why do you care?
About people who neither identify as men or women? I don't. Life is too short. Crack on.
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13-09-2017, 22:13   #320
leviathan13
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About people who neither identify as men or women? I don't. Life is too short. Crack on.
So what should i be talking about?

That is an argument you could apply to any debate... so what's the point of talking and why have you joined a public forum if life is too short to talk about anything?
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