How the Rich avoid tax

Ch 4 on Dispatches tonight 8pm.

Makes a change from Benefits night programs.

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

 

I unfortunately surrendered control of the zapper so sat through most of it. Some interesting figures, particularly the number of pages in UK tax law.

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

I opened a thread a few weeks ago on the channel 5 programme about the families receiving a years worth of benefits upfront and suggested they turn the cameras on the millionaire tax dodgers instead. The idea was scoffed at and quickly debunked.

I opened a thread a few weeks ago on the channel 5 programme about the families receiving a years worth of benefits upfront and suggested they turn the cameras on the millionaire tax dodgers instead. The idea was scoffed at and quickly debunked.

 

A Thatcherism, no doubt. That attitude will always prevail in a conservative England.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 23:24 ----------

 

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

 

Take a wild guess, Tories rule once more. I left England because of Thatcherism, it seems to be back, in my humble opinion

Edited February 17, 2016 by TORONTONY

Just caught up with this.

 

Bloody insulting.

Wealthy people can pay whatever their conscience dictates but poor people are robustly punished (hmrc doing a stellar job of recovering avoided/evaded tax) and vilified.

 

An insult.

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

 

You have your blinkers on. There have been plenty of threads about businesses avoiding tax.

 

---------- Post added 17-02-2016 at 10:34 ----------

 

So what were the techniques? Any that us regular people can use?

Indeed it does.

 

What interests me is that people on benefits seem to get right under the collar of people on SF, yet greedy people / companies who fiddle the state of billions of pounds in taxes - way. way beyond the amount that's lost to benefits, seems to warrant no comments at all...

 

Why is that?

 

I believe it's because people perceive that folks on benefits are lazy and or not working where as people see the larger companies as money generators and employers of 100's maybe 1000's of people.

 

Most people don't have an issue with people claiming working tax credits or people that are topping their income up from working with benefits. What gets on my nerves are the generations of families that have never worked and in some instances get more in benefits than people that do go to work that is unfair.

 

As a self employed sole trader though I would never ever get away with what the likes of Starbucks and google do and that is also equally unfair.

 

All as bad as each other but nothing will change as there is not much anyone can do about it, we can't force people to work and stop individuals from fiddling their benefits and we can't stop clever accountants finding loopholes to avoid tax. We would also struggle to impose tough tax rules on larger companies as they would simply move to another country which would cost us much more in the long run than the lost tax.

I believe it's because people perceive that folks on benefits are lazy and or not working where as people see the larger companies as money generators and employers of 100's maybe 1000's of people.

 

Most people don't have an issue with people claiming working tax credits or people that are topping their income up from working with benefits. What gets on my nerves are the generations of families that have never worked and in some instances get more in benefits than people that do go to work that is unfair.

 

As a self employed sole trader though I would never ever get away with what the likes of Starbucks and google do and that is also equally unfair.

 

All as bad as each other but nothing will change as there is not much anyone can do about it, we can't force people to work and stop individuals from fiddling their benefits and we can't stop clever accountants finding loopholes to avoid tax. We would also struggle to impose tough tax rules on larger companies as they would simply move to another country which would cost us much more in the long run than the lost tax.

 

I agree that benefit fraud is something that people can understand, whereas tax fraud/avoidance is highly complex (deliberately so) and difficult to get your head round, and let's face it, a programme about tax is hardly as compelling as a chance for moral indignation about somebody fiddling their benefits.

 

But I disagree that they are both as bad as each other. Benefit fraud tends to be perpetrated by poor people who have very little, are struggling to manage, and see it as the only way out. Tax fraud costs the exchequer far more, and is undertaken by people/ companies who are already exceedingly wealthy and want still more.

 

The punishments are not proportionate either, with tax avoiders/fraudsters being tollerated, or being asked politely if they wouldn't mind paying a little bit more, whereas benefit people get the book thrown at them and often end up in prison.

You're attempting to conflate avoidance and evasion, which as we all know are very different things, legally.

You're attempting to conflate avoidance and evasion, which as we all know are very different things, legally.

 

I think you're missing the point, the whole problem is that a millionaire can use schemes so he pays less tax than a cleaner. Legality isn't the issue. It's what's fair, and that really isn't.

Legality is absolutely key to the issue. Courts don't deal with fair or not fair.

 

Benefit fraud isn't financially important to the country, it's tiny.

 

Tax evasion is huge, but already illegal.

 

Tax avoidance is even larger, the government can fix that, but only with international agreement.

 

Anyway, what did the program expose. What do millionaires do? And can we do the same?

I bet if 100,000 people start doing the same thing, the law will be changed in a matter of weeks...