Sheffield Forum
Your message here

The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

Home > General > General Discussions

Reply To Topic
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
13-06-2018, 13:14   #9581
melthebell
*gets coat*
melthebell's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Near whitby, originally from Sheffield
Total Posts: 58,266
Send a message via MSN to melthebell Send a message via Yahoo to melthebell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penistone999 View Post
This whole situation is quite simple. The British people voted to LEAVE . That mean OUT , totally , no half measures, no deals with the foreigners in Brussels ,no keeping certain parts of the EU . Out means Out . Walk away , goodbye and good riddance to the foreign dictators in Brussels.

I dont think a lot of our MP`s get it . OUT means OUT.
i think youre going to be very disappointed
_______
Does your wife know what your up to mel when your in your own little world?
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 13:19   #9582
Obelix
Registered User
Obelix's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Total Posts: 12,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzijlstra View Post
Plus he is advocating for tariffs on imports from the EU, which will raise prices more.

A recent publication revealed that of the UK government spending, 2 % was controlled by the EU, with the majority coming back to the UK anyway, yet of that 98% there was a massive skew towards London/SE spending leading to other areas having a negative view of government spending. Although they did not tacitly label it - effectively the government has been overspending in the London area, blaming the EU for the imbalance when 'the North' queried it.
I've just cancelled a booking for a large party in the local Wetherspoons. When I told them why the abusive response I got back was priceless.

Think a GDPR request to them to make sure they are not being naughty with my data now might just be in order
_______
Looks like Farage wants a second referendum... is he worried he's insecure...?
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 13:31   #9583
ads36
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Total Posts: 169
Quote:
OUT means OUT.
got it.

a hard irish border.

out of Horizon 2020

no access to the CAP.

etc.

at least it's coherent strategy, i think we'd all be grateful if the government had half that clarity!
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 13:35   #9584
Baron99
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2017
Total Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by alchresearch View Post
This made me laugh:

Wetherspoon to stop selling champagne ahead of Brexit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44465657

Where to begin tearing it apart? I bet they sell very little, its all Cava and Proscecco - which is conveniently not mentioned. If I'm not mistaken, they're also produced in EU countries and are very cheap to buy wholesale and knock out for a tenner.

And stopping German beers for British ones? Remind me how his little plan to stop selling Heineken worked out.
Does remind me of when Wetherspoons were publicising British beef products being sold in their pubs. An investigation found that their steaks were made from African Zebu.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 15:14   #9585
retep
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Total Posts: 8,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
You begin by simply never going in there.

#dumpthespoons it can't be that tricky. I never knew it was run by such a narrow minded little Englander though...
"I've just cancelled a booking for a large party in the local Wetherspoons"


_______
Death keeps no calendar or return tickets.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 16:01   #9586
Obelix
Registered User
Obelix's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Total Posts: 12,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
"I've just cancelled a booking for a large party in the local Wetherspoons"


I'm sure you think there is sense there somewhere but from here you just look like you are dribbing from your gammon.
_______
Looks like Farage wants a second referendum... is he worried he's insecure...?
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 16:15   #9587
Eater Sundae
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Total Posts: 7,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penistone999 View Post
This whole situation is quite simple. The British people voted to LEAVE . That mean OUT , totally , no half measures, no deals with the foreigners in Brussels ,no keeping certain parts of the EU . Out means Out . Walk away , goodbye and good riddance to the foreign dictators in Brussels.

I dont think a lot of our MP`s get it . OUT means OUT.
Nope. Anyone who voted out gave the government a mandate to leave, but does not have any say as to what form the exit will take. It was the voting equivalent of signing a blank cheque, and letting someone else then fill in the details.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 17:19   #9588
retep
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Total Posts: 8,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
I'm sure you think there is sense there somewhere but from here you just look like you are dribbing from your gammon.
There is sense there it's called nonsense on your behalf.
_______
Death keeps no calendar or return tickets.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 17:19   #9589
SnailyBoy
Registered User
SnailyBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Total Posts: 5,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penistone999 View Post
This whole situation is quite simple. The British people voted to LEAVE . That mean OUT , totally , no half measures, no deals with the foreigners in Brussels ,no keeping certain parts of the EU . Out means Out . Walk away , goodbye and good riddance to the foreign dictators in Brussels.

I dont think a lot of our MP`s get it . OUT means OUT.
Was this you?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...pper-greatest/
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 17:58   #9590
I1L2T3
Registered User
I1L2T3's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Abbey Lane, S8
Total Posts: 14,995
Chances of a hard Brexit are now practically zero.
_______
Democracy lesson from Brexiters: The people have spoken, and must never speak again.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 17:58   #9591
nightrider
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Total Posts: 2,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ads36 View Post
got it.

a hard irish border.

out of Horizon 2020

no access to the CAP.

etc.

at least it's coherent strategy, i think we'd all be grateful if the government had half that clarity!
Not sure how this happened, but an amendment to keep us in single market appears to have been passed

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...b06f2cac87b74d

Perhaps this is what happens when you don’t allocate enough time to debate things properly
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 18:08   #9592
hobinfoot
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Total Posts: 417
The EU side have said that we can't stay in the SM or CU without excepting free movement. So why are people advocating this ? If this is the outcome we will have to do what the EU say with no choice in the matter. If the UK needs certain skills to work here then make them welcome but we must be able to choose.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 18:38   #9593
tzijlstra
Registered User
tzijlstra's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Hillsborough
Total Posts: 12,678
Status: Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobinfoot View Post
The EU side have said that we can't stay in the SM or CU without excepting free movement. So why are people advocating this ? If this is the outcome we will have to do what the EU say with no choice in the matter. If the UK needs certain skills to work here then make them welcome but we must be able to choose.
*accepting.

I am going to drag a very, very old point that I have made an awful lot, out of the bag of surprises: The Dutch, who are very much in Europe, have a fully accepted system whereby EU migrants have to contribute into the system before being entitled to state benefits. They also have the right, again, fully accepted, to tell people who can not sustain themselves, despite being EU citizens, are no longer welcome.

Here is an even bigger surprise, it is not just the Dutch with that system, it is the vast majority of EU countries. Biggest exception - the UK. Reason the UK is the biggest exception? Because the government (The UK government!) did not understand or wilfully ignored the fact that they had that choice.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 18:48   #9594
melthebell
*gets coat*
melthebell's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Near whitby, originally from Sheffield
Total Posts: 58,266
Send a message via MSN to melthebell Send a message via Yahoo to melthebell
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailyBoy View Post
LOL
the Bit he says about an open door being to the EU is an open door to the rest of the world, made me chuckle, where we are about to open our doors to the rest of the world

its funny as hell listening to these videos
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...ard-to-losing/
_______
Does your wife know what your up to mel when your in your own little world?

Last edited by melthebell; 13-06-2018 at 19:01.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 18:55   #9595
I1L2T3
Registered User
I1L2T3's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Abbey Lane, S8
Total Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobinfoot View Post
The EU side have said that we can't stay in the SM or CU without excepting free movement. So why are people advocating this ? If this is the outcome we will have to do what the EU say with no choice in the matter. If the UK needs certain skills to work here then make them welcome but we must be able to choose.
At the end of the day the EU is our biggest trading partner, and very likely will be for many decades to come.

The much hoped for EU collapse hasn’t happened, shows no signs of happening, and even if it did collapse then the chances of that resulting in the end of the SM/CU are nil.

The biggest free trade area in the world is on our doorstep. People are advocating staying in because it is the most rational solution.

As for free movement, we’ve always had the power to strongly influence that.
_______
Democracy lesson from Brexiters: The people have spoken, and must never speak again.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 19:09   #9596
hobinfoot
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Total Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzijlstra View Post
*accepting.

I am going to drag a very, very old point that I have made an awful lot, out of the bag of surprises: The Dutch, who are very much in Europe, have a fully accepted system whereby EU migrants have to contribute into the system before being entitled to state benefits. They also have the right, again, fully accepted, to tell people who can not sustain themselves, despite being EU citizens, are no longer welcome.

Here is an even bigger surprise, it is not just the Dutch with that system, it is the vast majority of EU countries. Biggest exception - the UK. Reason the UK is the biggest exception? Because the government (The UK government!) did not understand or wilfully ignored the fact that they had that choice.
Sorry about the spelling mistake. I'm not talking about the rights or wrongs of whether people pay into the system that's for another discussion. I said the Eu say to stay in the SM or CU you have to eccept free movement. My argument is this I can't understand why anyone would say that we should stay in either and have no input in any discussions.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 19:23   #9597
I1L2T3
Registered User
I1L2T3's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Abbey Lane, S8
Total Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobinfoot View Post
Sorry about the spelling mistake. I'm not talking about the rights or wrongs of whether people pay into the system that's for another discussion. I said the Eu say to stay in the SM or CU you have to eccept free movement. My argument is this I can't understand why anyone would say that we should stay in either and have no input in any discussions.
People would advocate it because it keeps things very similar to now, and would make reversal of Brexit less painful.

It avoids economic harm and gives us more short to medium term options, one of which of course could be to move further away from the EU.

Be wary of any politician who argues for the most extreme possible break with the EU. They’re most likely doing it because there is a big pot of gold for them if we have a chaotic hard Brexit.
_______
Democracy lesson from Brexiters: The people have spoken, and must never speak again.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 20:11   #9598
tzijlstra
Registered User
tzijlstra's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Hillsborough
Total Posts: 12,678
Status: Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobinfoot View Post
Sorry about the spelling mistake. I'm not talking about the rights or wrongs of whether people pay into the system that's for another discussion. I said the Eu say to stay in the SM or CU you have to eccept free movement. My argument is this I can't understand why anyone would say that we should stay in either and have no input in any discussions.
The principles of the European Economic Area have been agreed upon by the UK, throughout the different iterations. One of the key principles is free movement of people. My answer attempts to reflect the fact that free movement of people has been interpreted in a particular way by the UK that allowed EU citizens not just free movement but also access to state benefits etc.

So it was the interpretation of the UK government, not that of the EU.

Without lowering the discussion to platitudes - The UK agreed to the principles of the EU and now wants to alter those principles unilaterally, whilst ignoring the options already available to it. The EU isn't telling the UK to stay in, it isn't telling the UK it has no input. It is telling the UK that the UK voted to leave the EU so it is the UK that has to try and reach an agreement with the EU rather than vice versa. This is where the annoyance of 'have cake and eat it' comes from.

I don't know how long you've been following these debates, before the Consequences thread and since, but I have repeatedly explained, very clearly, that Cameron went to the EU to 'get some sort of arrangement' with a list of demands that he could already implement. It seems the Tories haven't grasped this simple fact yet.

The only reason the UK is still in the EU is because the EU hasn't pulled the plug yet, not the other way around. The reason the EU hasn't pulled the plug? Because it knows that millions of EU citizens, like me, will be left in political limbo if it does, and because it knows that on top of that tens of millions of British citizens will suffer the consequences.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 20:15   #9599
hobinfoot
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Total Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by I1L2T3 View Post
People would advocate it because it keeps things very similar to now, and would make reversal of Brexit less painful.

It avoids economic harm and gives us more short to medium term options, one of which of course could be to move further away from the EU.

Be wary of any politician who argues for the most extreme possible break with the EU. They’re most likely doing it because there is a big pot of gold for them if we have a chaotic hard Brexit.
To reverse brexit would be a total betrayal of the people. I don't want to move further away from the Eu and I'm pretty sure most people don't either. I voted to remain but now I just want to trade with the Eu fairly and the rest of the world as well.
  Reply With Quote
13-06-2018, 20:39   #9600
Litotes
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Hunters Bar
Total Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobinfoot View Post
To reverse brexit would be a total betrayal of the people. I don't want to move further away from the Eu and I'm pretty sure most people don't either. I voted to remain but now I just want to trade with the Eu fairly and the rest of the world as well.
No it wouldn't.
It would go against a minority of the population - yes a majority of those who voted, but not a total betrayal.
_______
If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy - David Davies
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. - Nigel Farage 2016
Brexit will be the 'easiest deal in human history' - Liam Fox
  Reply With Quote
Reply To Topic

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:26.
POSTS ON THIS FORUM ARE NOT ACTIVELY MONITORED
Click "Report Post" under any post which may breach our terms of use.
©2002-2017 Sheffield Forum | Powered by vBulletin ©2018