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Tram expansion in Sheffield

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How does this help? You're always keen to tell us that it's junctions that determine the road capacity...

They are looking to widen the approaches to the M1 J33 junction.

 

---------- Post added 20-09-2018 at 09:17 ----------

 

They certainly won't use it if it doesn't exist. Which seems to be the circular argument you're making.

It won't get built if there's no money and funding will only be provided if there's a business case for it, which there isn't.

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Guest busdriver1
They are looking to widen the approaches to the M1 J33 junction.

 

---------- Post added 20-09-2018 at 09:17 ----------

 

It won't get built if there's no money and funding will only be provided if there's a business case for it, which there isn't.

 

For a long time there have trial bus services linking waverley to the main transport network (A1, A3 A4.). and they have been gradually reduced due to low to zero uptake.

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And yet, THAT is where SCC wants the HS2 to go!!:huh::huh:

And it's therefore HS2's problem to sort it out. They do have a rather substantial budget.

 

What you are suggesting is a shuttle service to a park and ride site, presumably several times an hour at peak times. That would cause significant difficulties and probably is not feasible because of the capacity constraints on the approaches to the Midland Station.

 

Rail timetabling is enormously complex. Any changes you make in one place have ripple effects across the whole country. Look what happened when they recently got it wrong on timetable changes.

 

---------- Post added 20-09-2018 at 09:29 ----------

 

Nottingham seem to be getting it right and their tram network is expanding.

They pay for it by having a Workplace Parking Levy. Would you like to see one here?

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For a long time there have trial bus services linking waverley to the main transport network (A1, A3 A4.). and they have been gradually reduced due to low to zero uptake.

 

The Waverly masterplan shows a railway station on the Worksop line. Has that now been shelved?

 

What are the demographics of the estate? Cycling through watching it grow over the last 3 years it appears to be a lot of young families and the type of cars on the driveways would indicate a good degree of disposable income.

 

The next two big developments on the Rotherham side of the of AMP are imminent. The Hope Church building and community centre on the land by the Training centre and the retail centre with the new bus station.

 

Given the poor public transport to the Training Centre and our rapid expansion we are have asked the new apprentice degree intake to car share as much as possible so we don't overspill onto the estate roads again. We have a lot coming in this semester from Rolls Royce sites, Derby and Washingon (tyne and wear) and they have found public transport unworkable for 8am lecture starts.

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And yet, THAT is where SCC wants the HS2 to go!!:huh::huh:

 

Mind, 1 train an hour isnt that much extra capacity is it :)

 

---------- Post added 20-09-2018 at 07:59 ----------

 

 

I think that you are selling the SCC short, they put alot of effort into making sure that we gained sod all benefit from HS2

 

Inaccurate.

 

There were three sites in the frame:

Meadowhall- the preferred route of HS2, NR and Government.

Victoria/Nunnery- SCC preferred.

Midland -nobody until the cost cutting exercise.

 

If HS2 does arrive, then two platforms would be required which could only be 1, 6 or 8. These are currently at capacity as witnessed by the continual redirection of trains to/from these platforms and the parking of London services at Nunnery.

There will still be services along the MML.

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The Waverly masterplan shows a railway station on the Worksop line.

 

This is still very much on the cards but it just isn't a priority for the city region at the moment, and as a strategic scheme they would really need to get behind it.

 

From the original concept both the job density and the housing density is a lot less, so the initial idea of a park and ride at waverley was scrapped.

 

A park and ride around J33, with a segregated high frequency bus lane into central Sheffield would work, but no one is brave enough politically to lose the capacity for cars in the short term.

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They pay for it by having a Workplace Parking Levy. Would you like to see one here?

 

Seems a perfectly sensible suggestion, why NOT have it here??

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They pay for it by having a Workplace Parking Levy. Would you like to see one here?

 

yes, get on with it.

 

cars spend 90% of their time not moving, just taking up space. and that space is expensive/usefull

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This is where it gets more confusing. I previously linked the Sheffield City Region Transport Strategy.

 

Sheffield City Council should be launching a consultation for their strategy and it may be announced within the next few weeks. This is what was produced in June 2018; http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/documents/s31437/Transport%20Strategy%202.pdf

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They are looking to widen the approaches to the M1 J33 junction.

Make the approaches as wide as a runway, the roundabout will still be the bottleneck unless more lanes appear from somewhere (and I'm not even sure how more lanes would work).

It won't get built if there's no money and funding will only be provided if there's a business case for it, which there isn't.

 

What kind of business case is needed. There appear to be enough people living and working there to make use of public transport, they don't use it because it doesn't exist, so because they don't use it it doesn't get built? :roll:

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Make the approaches as wide as a runway, the roundabout will still be the bottleneck unless more lanes appear from somewhere (and I'm not even sure how more lanes would work).

 

What kind of business case is needed. There appear to be enough people living and working there to make use of public transport, they don't use it because it doesn't exist, so because they don't use it it doesn't get built? :roll:

 

I have been rewatching that brilliant series Yes Minister/Prime Minister and that argument sounds VERY familiar :)

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Make the approaches as wide as a runway, the roundabout will still be the bottleneck unless more lanes appear from somewhere (and I'm not even sure how more lanes would work).

 

What kind of business case is needed. There appear to be enough people living and working there to make use of public transport, they don't use it because it doesn't exist, so because they don't use it it doesn't get built? :roll:

You aren't a highway designer. The people working on the project are. They can clearly see a way of improving congestion or they would not be bothering with the scheme.

 

When bidding to Department for Major Transport Scheme funding, scheme promoters have to develop a business case and carry out analysis using the DfT's WebTAG methodology: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transport-analysis-guidance-webtag

 

They have to provide a thorough analysis the economic and environmental impacts, identify the benefits and arrive at a benefit / cost ratio.

 

The promoter develops and submits an outline business case and if that is accepted, they then further refine the scheme and develop/submit a full business case.

 

It's a time consuming and expensive process. To give you an example, on the highway scheme that SCC are developing in the M1 Junction 33/34 area, it's costing £1.2m to deliver the Outline Business Case (which is for a potentially £200m scheme).

 

---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 09:18 ----------

 

This is where it gets more confusing. I previously linked the Sheffield City Region Transport Strategy.

 

Sheffield City Council should be launching a consultation for their strategy and it may be announced within the next few weeks. This is what was produced in June 2018; http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/documents/s31437/Transport%20Strategy%202.pdf

 

Nothing unusual in that.

 

The city region transport strategy is the Local Transport Plan, which is a statutory document that local authority highway authorities have to produce every few years.

 

Underneath that, individual authorities may have their own strategies which will reflect how the city region strategy is being implemented at local level.

 

Policies and strategies are the basis on which the authorities can bid for funding (usually from Government). One of the first questions you have to answer in any bid is how does this project fit with policy at local, regional and national level.

 

---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 09:30 ----------

 

Seems a perfectly sensible suggestion, why NOT have it here??

 

Personally I think it's a good way of raising funding, but I can see some issues which need to be overcome:

  • It's highly likely that major employers will actively campaign against it (they did in Nottingham)
  • It's highly likely that employers would say that they will leave the city if it's implemented (they did in Nottingham)
  • We live in Yorkshire where no-one wants to pay for anything, so it will probably attract quite a bit of public resistance

 

Councillors, who have to approve all of this, will rightly be nervous about the potential for it to loose them votes and for it to potentially be a barrier to inward investment. They won't want Sheffield to be seen as not open for business.

 

As I understand it, no companies actually left Nottingham when the levy was implemented, although there was a very strong resistance to it led by some big companies. I understand one company left fairly recently saying it was a contributory factor.

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