The Labour Party. All discussion here please

Thanks. Appreciate it

 

If Labour decided their policy was to stay out of the EU but the Tories turned round and said "We acknowledge we made a mistake and want back in" - Would you vote Conservative?

 

Its a straight yes or no answer

If it was stay out of the EU as in no customs union, no partaking in EU bodies then yes, I'd vote Conservative.

Good to hear you are basing it on a situation instead of just a party alliance

 

Corbyn's Euroscepticism is a tactical view rather than a core principle like his pacifism and his anti racism and shouldn't be set in stone.

Simply not true. Corbyn is a lifelong Eurosceptic and has been since the 1970s when he earned his political spurs under the tutelage of his mentor, Tony Benn. Both see the EU as some kind of freemarket, global capitalist construct.

It's not tactical at all.

---------- Post added 17-08-2018 at 12:44 ----------

What people tend to forget is that in most of those pro Brexit communities the majority of Labour supporters voted Remain.

 

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Ehhhh? On what evidence do you base that claim? Most of the strongest Brexit communities were in Labour strongholds like the west midlands, north east and south yorkshire. Traditional working class Labour voters have always had a bit of a nationalist undercurrent to them; dont confuse them with the media savvy Labour luvvies of islington and Broomhall.

---------- Post added 17-08-2018 at 12:47 ----------

Would you vote Labour at the next election if Labour policy was to remain in the E U?

I would, but they won't. I've voted conservative for decades but would change my allegiance on an issue like this.

I see nothing contradictory about being a conservative and a remainer. In fact, the essence of conservatism is to conserve, be cautious, be pragmatic and avoid turbulence. There is NOTHING conservative about Brexit.

But they arent attacking his policies, theyre attacking the company he keeps.

Its happened to previous Labour MPs:

Jack Straw was attacked for his meeting with Mugabe.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/straw-shook-mugabes-hand-because-it-was-dark-34389.html

Blair was regularly attacked for how close he was to Bush. Not to mention Gadaffi, and no doubt others.

It was much more than that. I had to do an essay on it! Why did Labour lose the 1992 election. And {b]the Tories were in slightly better shape then than at the last election in my view.[/b]

of course they were. They were somewhat tired out in 1992 but not that badly. And most importantly, when nobody thought that Labour had a clue, they knew how to govern having won three elections in a row by 10 point margins and then after those three, the 1992 on top, when more people voted Tory than in any other election, ever.

1992 was the Tory high point electorally. The Tories are in much worse shape now. Since 1992, they've only won one election - and narrowly - in 2015. They have not won any of the other elections, and considering there has been 6 elections since 1992, that is a lot of elections, for the Tories, not to win. 1 out of 6, is not an especially good record, at all.

Cameron did a great deal for the Tories really, because he did bring them back from the brink, and it is doubtful if anybody else could have done it. It's a shame really that he'll just be remembered for BREXIT.

---------- Post added 18-08-2018 at 23:46 ----------

I'm struggling to buy this argument. Every old school Labour constituency I can find voted leave. Doncaster, stoke, mansfield etc etc. Leave and leave in big numbers.

the Scottish ones didn't, they tended to go for remain, although no by much, the old school Labour Scottish constituencies were less enthusiastic remainers than the Scottish average.

the Welsh old school Labour constituencies were like the English old school ones - the biggest leavers - Ebbw Vale, Rhonda, places like that. ALL the Labour valleys councils voted leave, and even some, although not all, Plaid areas voted leave. The big Wales REMAIN voting bit was the 'elite, metropolitan' - and Labour - Cardiff. Apart from Cardiff REMAIN was very threadbare in the whole of Wales which is supposed to be the most Labour inclined part of the whole of the UK. Swansea voted LEAVE. Newport voted LEAVE. Wrexham voted LEAVE.

Good to see that Labour MPs have time to get into battles with Jamie Oliver.

MP accuses Jamie Oliver of cultural appropriation over 'jerk rice' product

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mp-accuses-jamie-oliver-of-cultural-appropriation-over-range-of-jerk-rice-a3915126.html

Even funnier to see her taken down a peg with pictures of her doing a bit herself dressed in Scottish tartan and full Indian dress.

IIRC she was the same MP who accused Costa Coffee of not paying tax, then had to make an embarrassing climbdown, not to mention a whole host of other gaffs:

https://order-order.com/people/dawn-butler/

Every old school Labour constituency I can find voted leave. Doncaster, stoke, mansfield etc etc. Leave and leave in big numbers.

Although you are calling them Labour constituencies, they are actually made up of supporters of all parties and political opinions.

If a 'Labour constituency' votes leave, that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of Labour supporters voted leave, it means that the majority of voters voted leave and some will be Labour, some Tories, some UKIP and even some Lib Dems.

Although you are calling them Labour constituencies, they are actually made up of supporters of all parties and political opinions.

 

If a 'Labour constituency' votes leave, that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of Labour supporters voted leave, it means that the majority of voters voted leave and some will be Labour, some Tories, some UKIP and even some Lib Dems.

Doesn't that counteract your comment "What people tend to forget is that in most of those pro Brexit communities the majority of Labour supporters voted Remain."

You cant back up either statement as you have no facts to show it.

 

You cant back up either statement as you have no facts to show it.

No one can as it is a secret ballot therefore no one can say who voted leave in the referendum, Labour in a Parliamentary election and in how many cases these were the same people.

The point that I was making was that claiming that it was inevitable that a pro Remain Labour Party would lose seats in a Leave constituency is a false one as the Leave vote in those constituencies wasn't always made up of a majority of Labour voters.

There are also many Remain Conservative marginal seats which would return a pro Remain Labour MP but that is a different argument.

Although you are calling them Labour constituencies, they are actually made up of supporters of all parties and political opinions.

 

If a 'Labour constituency' votes leave, that doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of Labour supporters voted leave, it means that the majority of voters voted leave and some will be Labour, some Tories, some UKIP and even some Lib Dems.

he's talking about the 'cloth cap' type working class Labour constituencies that have usually delivered steamroller Labour majorities over decades. In some elections, they've voted 70% + Labour. There really isn't too many people, in these sort of constituencies that vote for any parties other than Labour. The places where it was said that Labour votes were weighed, not counted. Ebbw Vale. Stoke. Sunderland North. Manchester Gorton. Barnsley Central. Sheffield Brightside. All those kind of places voted LEAVE. I don't think that there is even one, out of the two or three dozen seats in that kind of massive Labour category, outside London or Scotland, that didn't vote LEAVE.

Good to see that Labour MPs have time to get into battles with Jamie Oliver.

 

MP accuses Jamie Oliver of cultural appropriation over 'jerk rice' product

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mp-accuses-jamie-oliver-of-cultural-appropriation-over-range-of-jerk-rice-a3915126.html

 

Even funnier to see her taken down a peg with pictures of her doing a bit herself dressed in Scottish tartan and full Indian dress.

 

IIRC she was the same MP who accused Costa Coffee of not paying tax, then had to make an embarrassing climbdown, not to mention a whole host of other gaffs:

 

https://order-order.com/people/dawn-butler/

Another LIEbour whelk stall operative, Jaysus the Party is full of them. Just to add, the Tory's are no better either.

Angel1.