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Who's at fault here in this car crash

Who was at fault for this crash?  

213 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was at fault for this crash?

    • White car
      92
    • Black car
      104
    • Other answer
      17


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If the driver of the black car does as he is supposed to do he moves forward into the middle lane marked BWTRY, same as the lane he approached the roundabout in. He shouldn't be moving over into the left lane.

 

I'm describing a situation where he stays in the same lane he entered the roundabout in. That lane becomes the left-most lane, immediately after the m1n exit, so in my scenario the black car would not be changing (moving over, as you put it) lanes.

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I'm describing a situation where he stays in the same lane he entered the roundabout in. That lane becomes the left-most lane, immediately after the m1n exit, so in my scenario the black car would not be changing (moving over, as you put it) lanes.

 

You’re not acting on ALL the information. The middle lane on approach becomes the middle lane on the roundabout. You should absolutely not be moving into the left hand lane.

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You mean with the AA van crossing the lanes? Whats wrong with that - provided the van indicated and looked - hes not getting in the way of another car as theres sufficient distance behind him to the other vehicles

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You’re not acting on ALL the information. The middle lane on approach becomes the middle lane on the roundabout. You should absolutely not be moving into the left hand lane.

 

But you wouldn't be moving in to it, the middle lane becomes the left most lane (after the exit for m1n); you do not need to switch lanes to get in to it, nor are there any white lines to cross, that would indicate you are switching lanes.

 

However, if you take 'lane' to be lane of road as delineated by white lines, the white car does change lanes (both in my scenario and in the video).

 

Do you understand lanes as being delineated by white lines, or do you have another idea of what a lane is?

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But you wouldn't be moving in to it, the middle lane becomes the left most lane (after the exit for m1n); you do not need to switch lanes to get in to it, nor are there any white lines to cross, that would indicate you are switching lanes.

 

However, if you take 'lane' to be lane of road as delineated by white lines, the white car does change lanes (both in my scenario and in the video).

 

Do you understand lanes as being delineated by white lines, or do you have another idea of what a lane is?

 

Again. you're not using ALL the information. Approaching in the middle lane marked for BWTRY you should be continuing in the lane marked BWTRY not switching over into the lane marked RTHAM. You are switching lanes. You should not be choosing to ignore information because it is inconvenient.

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Again. you're not using ALL the information. Approaching in the middle lane marked for BWTRY you should be continuing in the lane marked BWTRY not switching over into the lane marked RTHAM. You are switching lanes. You should not be choosing to ignore information because it is inconvenient.

 

You've not answered my question, how are you defining a 'lane'?

 

I'm thinking of a lane as the bit of road between two white lines; I imagine you consider a lane to be something else?

 

For example: https://goo.gl/images/CpSQBH

 

Again. The lane which joins the roundabout as the middle lane *IS* the lane that is left most, after the exit for m1n. Of course, if you have different idea of what constitutes a lane, you may not agree with this assertion.

 

Hope that helps!

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You've not answered my question, how are you defining a 'lane'?

 

I'm thinking of a lane as the bit of road between two white lines; I imagine you consider a lane to be something else?

 

For example: https://goo.gl/images/CpSQBH

 

Again. The lane which joins the roundabout as the middle lane *IS* the lane that is left most, after the exit for m1n. Of course, if you have different idea of what constitutes a lane, you may not agree with this assertion.

 

Hope that helps!

 

No it isnt. The lane you approach in is marked for bwtry and you should continue in the lane marked bwtry. You should not be miving over to the lane marked rham. If you ignore the instructions on which lane to get in and stay in you risk causing an accident like the driver of the black car. You should act on ALL the information, not just the bit that suits you.

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You mean with the AA van crossing the lanes? Whats wrong with that - provided the van indicated and looked - hes not getting in the way of another car as theres sufficient distance behind him to the other vehicles

 

Obviously he doesn't need to indicate, he's proceeding forwards in a lane that was marked for proceeding in that direction.

But the Passat, could you see the Passat, how it didn't swerve left and hit the AA van?

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No it isnt. The lane you approach in is marked for bwtry and you should continue in the lane marked bwtry. You should not be miving over to the lane marked rham. If you ignore the instructions on which lane to get in and stay in you risk causing an accident like the driver of the black car. You should act on ALL the information, not just the bit that suits you.

 

So, just so I understand...

 

A car that crosses a white line that delineates lanes; is NOT changing lanes, while...

 

A car that does not cross such a white line, IS changing lanes.

 

Is that what you're suggesting?

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2018 at 23:53 ----------

 

Trying to find where in the highway code it states 'indication of traffic lanes' takes precedence over 'lane lines', when it comes to defining where and what a lane is.

 

Found this: http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-markings.html

 

Can anyone find any other relevant parts of the highway code to support their argument?

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So, just so I understand...

 

A car that crosses a white line that delineates lanes; is NOT changing lanes, while...

 

A car that does not cross such a white line, IS changing lanes.

 

Is that what you're suggesting?

 

---------- Post added 18-02-2018 at 23:53 ----------

 

Trying to find where in the highway code it states 'indication of traffic lanes' takes precedence over 'lane lines', when it comes to defining where and what a lane is.

 

Found this: http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-markings.html

 

Can anyone find any other relevant parts of the highway code to support their argument?

 

Again, you're choosing to ignore a set of information that is relevant to suit your argument. Here's a junction I use most days.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Solihull/@52.4244499,-1.7769499,90a,35y,3.87h,45.02t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4870b0a0a5c6ab81:0xe3f527bb4b0274fc!8m2!3d52.411811!4d-1.77761

 

If I approach from the North in the right hand lane, then once past the Traffic Lights I swerve over to the left, not crossing any lines at all because there are none along this little stretch of junction have I changed lanes?

 

Are you suggesting that if I don't cross a line I haven't changed lane?

 

You should act on all the information available, not ignore some of it because it doesn't fit what you want it to say.

Edited by Fogey

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Obviously he doesn't need to indicate, he's proceeding forwards in a lane that was marked for proceeding in that direction.

But the Passat, could you see the Passat, how it didn't swerve left and hit the AA van?

 

Wheres the arrow saying he can - oh wait - there isn't one.....

 

So yes, if they were side by side the passat could have carried on IN HIS MARKED LANE and the AA van would be expected to yield.

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Oh my lord! I can’t believe this thread is still ongoing. Surely it has been argued to a standstill with every point covered.

There really are some tenacious posters on sf.

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