Congestion charge in Sheffield

What a ridiculous proposal. So buses have to pay it but private cars dont. Surely buses are the solution to congestion and private cars the problem. What planet is our Council on.

https://sheffieldnewsroom.co.uk/news/saving-lives-city-unites-around-bold-action-to-make-our-air-cleaner-and-safer/?fbclid=IwAR14mGcERSugbCASLQztdLZtPMwJQFzRLSLRs_PRaqTC2Qic0f0LvJsEh6g

Leeds are looking at the same thing.

The problem is there's lots of very old buses and private taxi's running around, they kick out a phenomenal amount of pollution.

Look at an old bus pulling out of a stop, it disappears in a cloud of black smoke each and every time the driver accelerates, it's quite astounding.

Wondered when it would raise its head again.

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14345

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=373631

Look at an old bus pulling out of a stop, it disappears in a cloud of black smoke each and every time the driver accelerates, it's quite astounding.

Spot on. Round here we've had most of ours replaced with partial electric ones. They pull away cleanly and silently with the electric motor and the engine doesn't kick in until about 20 mph. And even then there's no smoke.

Leeds are looking at the same thing.

The problem is there's lots of very old buses and private taxi's running around, they kick out a phenomenal amount of pollution.

 

Look at an old bus pulling out of a stop, it disappears in a cloud of black smoke each and every time the driver accelerates, it's quite astounding.

Yes but surely as part of the SYPTE they can put pressure on buses to clean up their act. And the real problem of congestion is caused by cars.

They can cry what they want, air is not gonna get any cleaner but at least they can make some money of it.

Spot on. Round here we've had most of ours replaced with partial electric ones. They pull away cleanly and silently with the electric motor and the engine doesn't kick in until about 20 mph. And even then there's no smoke.

Yes, and I'm sure it's simply because the buses are old and worn out.

They can't have been that smokey and disgusting when new surely?

---------- Post added 13-11-2018 at 10:24 ----------

Yes but surely as part of the SYPTE they can put pressure on buses to clean up their act. And the real problem of congestion is caused by cars.

Well yes and no.

I mean if it was that simple then we wouldn't have all these horrible polluting buses on the road in the first place, but you see them on a daily basis.

Also secondly you need to be aware of which type of pollution you're trying to tackle.

Traffic is the main cause of NOx emissions, with older Diesel cars being the big driver of that.

but there are other sources types of air pollution that traffic contribute less to, so enforcing a congestion charge won't really effect those so much.

Don't forget that these charges are very unpopular with the public, afterall Diesel cars were pushed by the government, now people are being told they will be charged to use the same car they were convinced to buy???

People will be very unhappy, especially those who simply can't afford to go out and buy a new car that meets the requirements.

1- The 500 deaths/year statistic is pure guesswork/averaging/speculation. There isnt a doctor out there who can categorically state that this or that death was caused by air pollution.

2- This council have a track record of misleading the public.

3- Get the charge in by saying it wont affect private car users (who would be by far the most vocal). Once the infrastructure is in place introduce the charge to private car users too- nice and gently- just £1 to start with..then £2 then £5...then a loyalty scheme option £250/yr

What a ridiculous proposal. So buses have to pay it but private cars dont. Surely buses are the solution to congestion and private cars the problem. What planet is our Council on.

Studies have shown buses, taxis and vans/trucks are the highest polluters, so it's to be expected that they will have to pay in a charging regime.

As Councillors are democratically elected, you can well understand that they don't want to introduce measures which are generally unpopular with the electorate, so they are trying hard not to charge car drivers. Whether that is viewed by the government as being sufficient to tackle problem, remains to be seen. They may not accept the proposals that don't involve charging cars.

The Government is ultimately accountable to the courts for compliance with air quality standards, but they can passport any fines to the relevant local Councils.

The Government is ultimately accountable to the courts for compliance with air quality standards, but they can passport any fines to the relevant local Councils.

Didn't this judgement come down from the European High Court??

I wonder how that will work come next March?

3- Get the charge in by saying it wont affect private car users (who would be by far the most vocal). Once the infrastructure is in place introduce the charge to private car users too- nice and gently- just £1 to start with..then £2 then £5...then a loyalty scheme option £250/yr

It's over a tenner a day in London, it's expected other cities will follow that model, Birmingham being the first - they've not set prices yet.

I wonder how much all this charging infrastructure costs to install in the first place too??

Yes but surely as part of the SYPTE they can put pressure on buses to clean up their act. And the real problem of congestion is caused by cars.

The Council and the PTE have been doing that as much as they reasonably can through the Sheffield Bus Partnership: http://www.sypte.co.uk/sbp/

These Partnerships are voluntary, but they are as much as can be done without Franchising, which has proven to be impossible under the current regulatory framework (they tried to introduce it in Tyneside, but it could not be done).

Its important to note that this is not about reducing congestion.

This is the Council's response to a government requirement for them to state how they are going to bring air quality down to legal limits. The government has given them funding to carry out a study and produce a report. That is what is being discussed.

---------- Post added 13-11-2018 at 10:49 ----------

Didn't this judgement come down from the European High Court??

I wonder how that will work come next March?

The requirements have been adopted in UK law, so it won't change.

The easy option to object to it is to let the scheme start then have all the chargeable vehicles stop at the boundary.

When goods and people aren't getting into the city and it dies on it's backside...

1- The 500 deaths/year statistic is pure guesswork/averaging/speculation. There isnt a doctor out there who can categorically state that this or that death was caused by air pollution.

 

2- This council have a track record of misleading the public.

 

3- Get the charge in by saying it wont affect private car users (who would be by far the most vocal). Once the infrastructure is in place introduce the charge to private car users too- nice and gently- just £1 to start with..then £2 then £5...then a loyalty scheme option £250/yr

It's not guesswork. If you think statistics is guesswork then you've fundamentally misunderstood how it works.