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14-09-2018, 12:09   #2141
paula4sheff
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Originally Posted by makapaka View Post
Which other subjects?

Tramlines - you managed to dig them out about that.

Grass verges - where I criticised the performance of the council / amey?

The new retail quarter which people seem to have a problem with?

What other issues have I defended which highlight my bias?
Tramlines has been flogged to a dull major festival company - nothing to do with the council as far as I'm aware....

Grass verges - no idea. Was there a problem with them? I'd imagine there was if Amey are in control of cutting/maintaining them.

Retail quarter? Nope, no idea either I'm afraid. Most people I know now give the city centre a swerve as they're sick of being asked for money/watching drug deals.

I have no interest in trawling your past posts, but wherever someone mentions the council it's a bit of a forum in-joke that you'll pop up in it's defence! Speculation does abound as to why of course.....but that's up to us to ponder and for you to keep secret!

---------- Post added 14-09-2018 at 12:11 ----------

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Originally Posted by MarkS20 View Post
No, by all means complain, my point is just that the proportional effort should be in line with the impact of what you're complaining about.

I'm done with this thread now, I wish you all the best, I also hope the council and its contractors can get on with their jobs, and everyone in Sheffield's streets gets upgraded like mine has been.
What a strange idea. What proportion of effort would you attribute appropriate for people wishing to protect trees in their area?
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14-09-2018, 12:36   #2142
makapaka
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
Tramlines has been flogged to a dull major festival company - nothing to do with the council as far as I'm aware....

Grass verges - no idea. Was there a problem with them? I'd imagine there was if Amey are in control of cutting/maintaining them.

Retail quarter? Nope, no idea either I'm afraid. Most people I know now give the city centre a swerve as they're sick of being asked for money/watching drug deals.

I have no interest in trawling your past posts, but wherever someone mentions the council it's a bit of a forum in-joke that you'll pop up in it's defence! Speculation does abound as to why of course.....but that's up to us to ponder and for you to keep secret![COLOR="Silver"]
Well if youíve no interest in evidencing your statement maybe you shouldnít make it in the first place.

The ďin-jokeĒ is just peoples go to - usually when they donít have an actual response.

Similar to this example where you have stated I defend the council on every issue but havenít even seen my comments on four recent discussions and have no interest in reading any others.
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14-09-2018, 12:39   #2143
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At the risk of repeating myself, discuss the subject please, not each other.


Back on topic.
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14-09-2018, 12:56   #2144
bendix
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post

Perhaps this 'quiet majority' could go out and rally in favour of Amey then against these 'bearded classes' who don't especially want to see healthy trees cut down for corporate profit?

I'd wager they probably won't as they'd rather sit on their sofa in front of the television.....and then complain after all the trees in their area have gone.

Why would anyone rally in favour of them doing what the silent majority accept is necessary. That's just silly.

I don't know where you live, but I'm in S7 and from what I've seen the policy of selecting pruning / culling seems sensible and most support it. But, yeah, the protesting class know better than them, so perhaps they will wake up and realise how dumb they are compared to you guys soon enough. That'll learn us.
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14-09-2018, 13:12   #2145
paula4sheff
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Why would anyone rally in favour of them doing what the silent majority accept is necessary. That's just silly.

I don't know where you live, but I'm in S7 and from what I've seen the policy of selecting pruning / culling seems sensible and most support it. But, yeah, the protesting class know better than them, so perhaps they will wake up and realise how dumb they are compared to you guys soon enough. That'll learn us.
If not wanting to see healthy trees destroyed to line the pockets of Amey is 'dumb' then I think we're probably living in quite different worlds.
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14-09-2018, 13:19   #2146
bendix
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
If not wanting to see healthy trees destroyed to line the pockets of Amey is 'dumb' then I think we're probably living in quite different worlds.
I suspect if you read Amey's Annual Report, their mission statement doesn't include the lines: "We are dastardly people dedicated to killing trees."

Where I live there are too many trees planted too close together. They have ruined pavements, making some completely unpassable for mothers with prams, or people in wheelchairs. Some selective pruning is essential, in precisely the same way selective pruning of flowers and plants is often necessary to ensure long term sustainability for the entire garden.

I live in the world where those trees are and where they are impacting people's lives, negatively. The work is being done to ensure those trees impact those people, positively.

I'm happy in my world. You carry on protesting. You'll get no support or thanks from me or my community of neighbours.
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14-09-2018, 13:29   #2147
paula4sheff
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Originally Posted by bendix View Post
I suspect if you read Amey's Annual Report, their mission statement doesn't include the lines: "We are dastardly people dedicated to killing trees."

Where I live there are too many trees planted too close together. They have ruined pavements, making some completely unpassable for mothers with prams, or people in wheelchairs. Some selective pruning is essential, in precisely the same way selective pruning of flowers and plants is often necessary to ensure long term sustainability for the entire garden.

I live in the world where those trees are and where they are impacting people's lives, negatively. The work is being done to ensure those trees impact those people, positively.

I'm happy in my world. You carry on protesting. You'll get no support or thanks from me or my community of neighbours.
You might want to read a little more about Amey, other than their own promotional material.

Where I live there are no problems with the trees- hence protests when they try to cut them down for no reason.

You're of course free to carry on being happy that trees are being removed, and call those that aren't 'dumb'.

It's an odd thing to be proud of, offering no support to people who don't wish their area to have healthy trees removed, for the sake of private profit and gain. Personally I support people protesting about the putting of corporations before communities, wherever that may be, and in whatever cause.

I'm glad you have such a close knit community that you not only know everyone's views in it, but can also speak for them exclusively. Heaven forbid you'd just lump you and your pals view as representative of entire communities......
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14-09-2018, 13:35   #2148
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No, sorry to disappoint you just a regular guy, but with a different opinion to yourself.
An opinion that appears to be based on believing the propaganda about the trees being "dead, diseased, dying or discriminatory", all of which have been thoroughly proven to be untrue.

---------- Post added 14-09-2018 at 13:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS20 View Post
No, by all means complain, my point is just that the proportional effort should be in line with the impact of what you're complaining about.

I'm done with this thread now, I wish you all the best, I also hope the council and its contractors can get on with their jobs, and everyone in Sheffield's streets gets upgraded like mine has been.
So what level of effort are you putting in personally with regards to the protest about global tree loss, or poverty, or human rights abuses?
Just so we can gauge it against the level of effort you've spent here defending a private company increasing its profit by needlessly cutting down trees in Sheffield...

---------- Post added 14-09-2018 at 13:38 ----------

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Originally Posted by bendix View Post
Why would anyone rally in favour of them doing what the silent majority accept is necessary. That's just silly.
Given that there silent, that would rather suggest that there is no evidence they exist at all...

Pretty much everyone I know and speak to is against the removal of the trees, the majority (in fact no-one I know) protests about it. So that would suggest a silent majority in favour of the protests and against the behaviour of Amey and the council.

---------- Post added 14-09-2018 at 13:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
You might want to read a little more about Amey, other than their own promotional material.

Where I live there are no problems with the trees- hence protests when they try to cut them down for no reason.

You're of course free to carry on being happy that trees are being removed, and call those that aren't 'dumb'.

It's an odd thing to be proud of, offering no support to people who don't wish their area to have healthy trees removed, for the sake of private profit and gain. Personally I support people protesting about the putting of corporations before communities, wherever that may be, and in whatever cause.

I'm glad you have such a close knit community that you not only know everyone's views in it, but can also speak for them exclusively. Heaven forbid you'd just lump you and your pals view as representative of entire communities......
It's a fairly typical example of anti-snobbery isn't it.
No matter how obvious the cause is, some people think it's clever to come out in favour of the less popular side. They almost certainly don't actually care, and they probably don't even believe what they're saying.
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14-09-2018, 13:54   #2149
bendix
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It's a fairly typical example of anti-snobbery isn't it.
No matter how obvious the cause is, some people think it's clever to come out in favour of the less popular side. They almost certainly don't actually care, and they probably don't even believe what they're saying.

Could you be any more patronising?

Let me give you some hard examples. Sheldon Road in S7 is a disaster area, where people simply cannot walk on the pavements because the trees have destroyed them. I don't know about you, but when I see young mothers pushing their kids in push chairs on the road beside the traffic, because it's impossible to use the pavement, my instinct is to put their needs over the trees (which, mind you, are suffering becasuse they were planted too close together decades ago).

There are many shades of grey in this discussion. Cheap platitudes about caring about trees sounds good and are so easy to rally behind and look oh-so-caring, but sadly life is a little more nuanced than that.

And, yes, Cyclone. The silent majority do exist. I know and talk to many people who cringe in embarassment at the protesters' one dimensional view which tolerates no deviation. Some of them - god forbid - actually vote Green but realise something needs to be done to preserve the trees for future generations to come.

You guys don't have a monopoly on being right you know, although you do enjoy that position on sanctimony.
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14-09-2018, 14:02   #2150
Cyclone
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I guess I could, but I'd have to put some effort in.

The silent majority do exist, I agree, they're silently in favour of the protests and aghast at the wholesale removal of trees for no good reason.

I don't know who you think "you guys" are, I'm not a member of STAG and I've never been out to protest a tree removal. On the other hand if Bryan Lodge were on fire in front of me I'd struggle to find the need to micturate.

Out of interest;
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.35...7i13312!8i6656
Which section do you think is impassable and forces the children (won't someone think of the children) into the road with their mothers pushing them?
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14-09-2018, 14:23   #2151
redruby
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Originally Posted by bendix View Post
Could you be any more patronising?

Let me give you some hard examples. Sheldon Road in S7 is a disaster area, where people simply cannot walk on the pavements because the trees have destroyed them. I don't know about you, but when I see young mothers pushing their kids in push chairs on the road beside the traffic, because it's impossible to use the pavement, my instinct is to put their needs over the trees (which, mind you, are suffering becasuse they were planted too close together decades ago).

There are many shades of grey in this discussion. Cheap platitudes about caring about trees sounds good and are so easy to rally behind and look oh-so-caring, but sadly life is a little more nuanced than that.

And, yes, Cyclone. The silent majority do exist. I know and talk to many people who cringe in embarassment at the protesters' one dimensional view which tolerates no deviation. Some of them - god forbid - actually vote Green but realise something needs to be done to preserve the trees for future generations to come.

You guys don't have a monopoly on being right you know, although you do enjoy that position on sanctimony.
The footpath on sheldon has been affected by trees but itís not that bad!! As someone who uses footpaths a lot Iíd say the biggest cause of obstruction on footpaths is parked vehicles.
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14-09-2018, 15:00   #2152
bendix
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The footpath on sheldon has been affected by trees but itís not that bad!! As someone who uses footpaths a lot Iíd say the biggest cause of obstruction on footpaths is parked vehicles.

There are sections of the pavement around some of the trees where the root growth is so pronounced that it has buckled the pavement. I walk down there most days, and I dont rely on Cyclone's silly Google Map images to see what I see.

But, hey, he or she has decided it's not an issue so I shall tell them not to worry.
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14-09-2018, 15:04   #2153
Dales
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Originally Posted by paula4sheff View Post
I've no idea what their plans are -but it's been like that for about a year now. The holes in the pavement are a 'no win, no fee' claim waiting to happen in my view.

I'm still baffled as to why anyone would be "embarrassed" by a group of people not wanting healthy trees destroyed to line the pockets of a multinational company.

These trees don't need to be 'replaced' (although, as mentioned, they're not being where I live) at all. They need to be properly maintained. They're not causing problems - as the independent survey showed. No one has ever disputed the removing of trees that the survey stated need replacing. That the survey was undertaken and then ignored is indefensible.
Hi Paula,
Have the trees not been replaced because the felling work has stopped?
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14-09-2018, 19:55   #2154
makapaka
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I guess I could, but I'd have to put some effort in.

The silent majority do exist, I agree, they're silently in favour of the protests and aghast at the wholesale removal of trees for no good reason.

I don't know who you think "you guys" are, I'm not a member of STAG and I've never been out to protest a tree removal. On the other hand if Bryan Lodge were on fire in front of me I'd struggle to find the need to micturate.

Out of interest;
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.35...7i13312!8i6656
Which section do you think is impassable and forces the children (won't someone think of the children) into the road with their mothers pushing them?
Youíve nothing to back that statement up - itís based purely on your own echo chamber.

I donít profess to know - but I would guess the silent majority doesnít really care - a small amount of people will be against - and a small amount can be bothered to question the protestors actions.
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15-09-2018, 00:30   #2155
redruby
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There are sections of the pavement around some of the trees where the root growth is so pronounced that it has buckled the pavement. I walk down there most days, and I dont rely on Cyclone's silly Google Map images to see what I see.

But, hey, he or she has decided it's not an issue so I shall tell them not to worry.
I also walk on sheldon road regularly so I know what it’s like and wouldn’t say it was a ‘disaster area’. Yes, the footpath is uneven in places but it’s hardly impassable and as I understand it there are ways of dealing with that don’t involve chopping down healthy trees.

Trees help mitigate the pollution from too many vehicles on the roads. I have noticed that many of those in favour of chopping down trees are the types that drive everywhere including short trips that are quite walkable. And yet they complain about the state of footpaths.

Last edited by redruby; 15-09-2018 at 00:32.
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15-09-2018, 00:41   #2156
makapaka
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I also walk on sheldon road regularly so I know what itís like and wouldnít say it was a Ďdisaster areaí. Yes, the footpath is uneven in places but itís hardly impassable and as I understand it there are ways of dealing with that donít involve chopping down healthy trees.

Trees help mitigate the pollution from too many vehicles on the roads. I have noticed that many of those in favour of chopping down trees are the types that drive everywhere including short trips that are quite walkable. And yet they complain about the state of footpaths.
So youíve met some people that told you they were in favour of chopping down trees - and they told you they drive everywhere - and then they told you they were unhappy with the state of the footpaths?

That must have been a weird conversation- itís almost like that conversation set them out as a prime example of someone who fit a mould of an unreasonable opponent to the tree felling programme.
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15-09-2018, 09:07   #2157
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You should question them on this thread if you want to check makapaka.
Whilst you're at it, ask them about political left/right leanings and level of education. I suspect we'd see a correlation there as well.

---------- Post added 15-09-2018 at 09:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by makapaka View Post
Youíve nothing to back that statement up - itís based purely on your own echo chamber.
Much like the point I was reflecting, did you not notice that?
In fact bendix did it first, so where's the post telling him that his echo chamber anecdotes aren't evidence?
Quote:

I donít profess to know - but I would guess the silent majority doesnít really care - a small amount of people will be against - and a small amount can be bothered to question the protestors actions.
Could well be the case, might not be, you're guessing, I'm basing it on my anecdotal experience as was bendix.
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15-09-2018, 10:50   #2158
c00kie
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Could you be any more patronising?

Let me give you some hard examples. Sheldon Road in S7 is a disaster area, where people simply cannot walk on the pavements because the trees have destroyed them. I don't know about you, but when I see young mothers pushing their kids in push chairs on the road beside the traffic, because it's impossible to use the pavement, my instinct is to put their needs over the trees (which, mind you, are suffering becasuse they were planted too close together decades ago).

There are many shades of grey in this discussion. Cheap platitudes about caring about trees sounds good and are so easy to rally behind and look oh-so-caring, but sadly life is a little more nuanced than that.

And, yes, Cyclone. The silent majority do exist. I know and talk to many people who cringe in embarassment at the protesters' one dimensional view which tolerates no deviation. Some of them - god forbid - actually vote Green but realise something needs to be done to preserve the trees for future generations to come.

You guys don't have a monopoly on being right you know, although you do enjoy that position on sanctimony.

For Sheldon Road 23 out of the 28 households who responded to the ITP objected to the trees being removed. So it would seem that your views do not reflect those of the people who live there

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content...don%20Road.pdf

Last edited by c00kie; 15-09-2018 at 10:52. Reason: Typo
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15-09-2018, 11:55   #2159
Cyclone
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And the ITP actually agreed that the 10 trees identified should be removed and replaced.
I wonder if only those 10 actually were though, or if many more were removed.
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15-09-2018, 15:00   #2160
makapaka
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Originally Posted by c00kie View Post
For Sheldon Road 23 out of the 28 households who responded to the ITP objected to the trees being removed. So it would seem that your views do not reflect those of the people who live there

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content...don%20Road.pdf
What this shows is the vast majority of people aren’t bothered.
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