Sheffield Pubs - decent beer in a proper pub?

I'm glad to see that I amused DnAuk and SteelCityAle. It just comes down to personal opinion at the end of the day though, doesn't it? To me, the definition of a "good" beer is one that I just enjoy. It's like "good" restaurants/takeaways/books/works of art, etc. etc. It's all down to personal taste and opinion.

 

I like these kinds of threads, when contributors share views and opinions and have a bit of friendly banter. It's interesting and informative. I do get a bit disappointed when some people get all "sneery" and supercilious though.

 

My philosophy is that I'll try anything (well..most things) once. If I like it it's "good" and if I don't. it's...er..not! Just because you prefer a different beer than I do doesn't necessarily make you some sort of superior being - a "beer boffin" or an "ale afficionado" - it just makes you a person who prefers a different beer! There's really no need to get all anal about it!

Which is all quite true to some extent....but, would you trust a the judgement from someone who told you he preferred Wetherspoons food to a proper restaurant food, or who said he preferred McDonalds to a proper burger, or who said he preferred a pint of 3.6% Stones to a pint Jaipur? Or a Vesta curry meal to a proper balti in a restaurant? Or a Pot Noodle to a proper meal? You wouldn't would you, because even though those people chose to like different things, you could still disagree with their choices.

Which is all quite true to some extent....but, would you trust a the judgement from someone who told you he preferred Wetherspoons food to a proper restaurant food, or who said he preferred McDonalds to a proper burger, or who said he preferred a pint of 3.6% Stones to a pint Jaipur? Or a Vesta curry meal to a proper balti in a restaurant? Or a Pot Noodle to a proper meal? You wouldn't would you, because even though those people chose to like different things, you could still disagree with their choices.

Everyone is entitled to their view of course.

The problem is people trying to force their opinion across. The examples you use are misrepresentative as well. I've never seen people champion pot noodles or vesta curries and I don't know any pubs / restaurants that sell them.

It's the pub snobbery that does my head in. Particularly because pubs need all the support they can get currently and people are so damning based on their own tastes.

For the record i prefer stones to Jaipur - what is wrong with that and what does it matter to you. If a pub sells stones and people like it why should it be derided?

There a are plenty of pubs that cater for people who like real ale / craft beer etc but those that don't shouldn't be run down by people - just go to the place that sells the beer you like.

Food and drink are different anyway - I accept you can clearly measure the difference between a McDonalds burger and a handmade one - but people going on about the difference in a pint of ale are having themselves on. Maybe it is a better quality etc but a pint of beer is a pint of beer for gods sake. You like what you like.

I'm glad to see that I amused DnAuk and SteelCityAle. It just comes down to personal opinion at the end of the day though, doesn't it? To me, the definition of a "good" beer is one that I just enjoy. It's like "good" restaurants/takeaways/books/works of art, etc. etc. It's all down to personal taste and opinion.

 

I like these kinds of threads, when contributors share views and opinions and have a bit of friendly banter. It's interesting and informative. I do get a bit disappointed when some people get all "sneery" and supercilious though.

 

My philosophy is that I'll try anything (well..most things) once. If I like it it's "good" and if I don't. it's...er..not! Just because you prefer a different beer than I do doesn't necessarily make you some sort of superior being - a "beer boffin" or an "ale afficionado" - it just makes you a person who prefers a different beer! There's really no need to get all anal about it!

The issue is, you said beer was better back in the 70's . It clearly wasn't. It took a leap of faith from an American brewer in the late 90s to re-establish certain hops and ingredients that had fallen by the wayside for many years as huge brewers simply pumped out mass produced crap for many years.

Nowadays there are more brewers than ever, brewing a range of beers the likes of which have never been seen before. Maybe you should try some before you comment. You know, like I have with the stuff you think was 'good'.

me and Dave don't see eye to eye on everything beer wise, but at least our opinion is informed.

Food and drink are different anyway - I accept you can clearly measure the difference between a McDonalds burger and a handmade one - but people going on about the difference in a pint of ale are having themselves on. Maybe it is a better quality etc but a pint of beer is a pint of beer for gods sake. You like what you like.

really? I'd say food and drink aren't different. I agree that you like what you like, but there is also some beer that is intrinsically better than others. Some may prefer the lower quality option, just as some prefer McDogfood to proper food...

really? I'd say food and drink aren't different. I agree that you like what you like, but there is also some beer that is intrinsically better than others. Some may prefer the lower quality option, just as some prefer McDogfood to proper food...

Spot on - How can food and drink be different? They are all about taste, smell and texture. No difference at all.

I can wolf down a McD's and enjoy it at times but would never argue that it was better than a fillet steak. Just as I can glug a pint of Kelham when the mood calls for it, but it's no Beavertown.

He's more of a "craft beer" drinker to be honest, you'll have to look it up.

No, I won't.

But hey, you and him sound like you could enjoy a great night out together, laughing at lager drinkers, whilst polishing your air of superiority.

---------- Post added 20-09-2016 at 12:49 ----------

really? I'd say food and drink aren't different. I agree that you like what you like, but there is also some beer that is intrinsically better than others. Some may prefer the lower quality option, just as some prefer McDogfood to proper food...

Explain how some beer is intrinsically better than others without not being subjective.

I agree that you like what you like, but there is also some beer that is intrinsically better than others....

How can it be better in any sense of the word if you don't like it?

I grew up in a time/ place when real ale was the preserve of trainspotters and flashers but accept now its much more fashionable and certainly credit the movement with improving many a pub but it still amuses me when people try and convince me of its virtues when its just a matter of taste, otherwise wouldn't we all be drinking the same thing?

 

Explain how some beer is intrinsically better than others without not being subjective.

better quality grains and hops. Fewer shortcuts in the process. Fewer chemicals.

You wouldn't (presumably) argue that Chateauneuf du Pape isn't better quality than Tesco Value red, even if some people might prefer the latter...

---------- Post added 20-09-2016 at 13:45 ----------

How can it be better in any sense of the word if you don't like it??

because quality isn't subjective, but whether you like it is... McDogfood is poor quality, yet millions like it...

I grew up in a time/ place when real ale was the preserve of trainspotters and flashers but accept now its much more fashionable and certainly credit the movement with improving many a pub but it still amuses me when people try and convince me of its virtues when its just a matter of taste, otherwise wouldn't we all be drinking the same thing?

don't let's confuse real ale with good quality! there may be correlation, but it's definitely not causation!

Anyway, yes it's a matter of taste, but like I say it's far from unknown for a lower quality option to be more popular (often regardless of price)

better quality grains and hops. Fewer shortcuts in the process. Fewer chemicals.

 

You wouldn't (presumably) argue that Chateauneuf du Pape isn't better quality than Tesco Value red, even if some people might prefer the latter...

 

---------- Post added 20-09-2016 at 13:45 ----------

 

 

because quality isn't subjective, but whether you like it is... McDogfood is poor quality, yet millions like it...

 

 

don't let's confuse real ale with good quality! there may be correlation, but it's definitely not causation!

 

Anyway, yes it's a matter of taste, but like I say it's far from unknown for a lower quality option to be more popular (often regardless of price)

Some people, for example, harp on about the enjoyment a pint of Doom Bar brings. Others, who have had the change to sample most other things, know it's mass produced crap.

Like I've said before, try sampling some stuff before you knock it. Once you consider Jaipur to be a decent standard beer you have joined a brave new world and you will never look back.

Lots of good points made in answer to my previous post. On reflection, I agree with a lot of those comments. I apologize for being a bit hasty to judge.

Truth is - no, I wouldn't take a recommendation on beer or food from someone who preferred a ready meal or a pot noodle to a well-cooked home-made meal or a lovely restaurant meal, or who preferred a pint of weak mass-produced beer to a pint of summat decent, stronger and more lovingly crafted. Some people actually do prefer crap over quality though. I don't understand it, but I do accept anyone's right to "like what they like"....although I admit that it really annoys me when someone declares that they don't like something foody or drinky before they've even tried it.

I do think I know a bit about beer though. I became of "boozing age" in the early-mid 70's - the days of Watney's Red Label...Trophy....Double Diamond....Bass Charrington..., so I know plenty about crap beer, for a start! When I travel anywhere in Britain, I always make a point of trying as many local beers as I can, draught or bottled. I've been to Holland and Belgium and tried some very weird and potent brews. I've spent time in rural America (Idaho) and urban America (Seattle) and I've tried many, many of their different draught and bottled beers too - some of the bottled ones were 9 0r 10% .....I didn't like them at all - really thick and claggy!

I've lived in London since 1979 - it's always had plenty of "real ale" pubs and these days London is absolutely awash with micro-breweries under railway arches, pubs that brew their own on the premises, etc, etc.

For all that though, I still go back to my original point. At the end of the day, you just like what you like! Of all the beers I've ever tried in my whole life, my favourite remains the pint of Wards that they used to serve in the old Shoulder of Mutton in Worrall - before they extended it, did it up.............. and ruined it for ever!

really? I'd say food and drink aren't different. I agree that you like what you like, but there is also some beer that is intrinsically better than others. Some may prefer the lower quality option, just as some prefer McDogfood to proper food...

Agree 100%. There is just as much difference in the quality of beer as there is with food.

The issue with threads like this is the point isn't appreciated by all. So you've got some people who are seemingly offended at the suggestion and see this as snobbery. It isn't. It's just a fact that some beers are made of better quality ingredients than others - and consequently taste better.

And it follows from there, that some brewers pay more attention or place more importance on this than others. And therefore it's entirely possible that the beers from one brewer may be considerably better quality than those from another. And that's before we take the skill of the brewers into account.

How can it be better in any sense of the word if you don't like it?

 

I grew up in a time/ place when real ale was the preserve of trainspotters and flashers but accept now its much more fashionable and certainly credit the movement with improving many a pub but it still amuses me when people try and convince me of its virtues when its just a matter of taste, otherwise wouldn't we all be drinking the same thing?

Of course it's a matter of taste, but tastes develop, if you let them.

30 years ago in my teens I would knock back a decent amount of Stella

25 years ago I dropped lager in favour of ale as it had more taste.

20 year ago I went to the USA, at that time largely dominated by lager and sought out the brand new Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. It was so far ahead of anything else I'd had that it was difficult to go back.

Then about 15 year ago the craft revolution came to the UK and we started getting much better quality beer here. Never looked back.

Thing is, I guarantee there is a better beer out there for everyone, regardless of taste, if only they would pick up the courage to try it. I've gone from lager, to pale ale, to massively hoppy IPAs and now some of my favourite beers are ludicrously strong Imperial stouts. More and more are finding the same. Almost every session of Leeds International Beer Festival this year had almost a thousand visitors. Maybe you should try going to one?