Lockdoctor   10 #4237 Posted October 11, 2018 Your so scared of a second referendum overturning the result that you'd say literally anything to stop it happening. Stop being such a drama Queen. There was nothing to be scared about regarding either of the two options, which the democratic people were asked to choose from on the EU referendum ballot paper. There is no Father Christmas and there will be no second referendum. Perhaps, it's time you grew up.  ---------- Post added 11-10-2018 at 19:57 ----------  Currently, a more likely scenario is this. A deal is struck which gives reasonable trade access. The deal solves the bulk of the worst no-deal outcomes feared. We agree to a pretty simple EU work visa system. Planes keep flying, business runs as normal, goods flow well. Do labour and DUP try to scupper a deal that is in most likelihood the best compromise available? If Labour do that with the aim of forcing a GE, will they do ok in it, or suffer a backlash from middle of the road Labour supporters? It's very hard for Labour or the DUP to force a General Election as a consequence of the fixed term Parliament legislation, which was introduced by the David Cameron/Nick Clegg coalition. There needs to be two thirds of MPs in order to force a General Election. When Mrs May called a General Election last year both the Conservative party and Labour party supported the snap General Election, which wont be the case anytime before the UK leave the EU next March. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Top Cats Hat   10 #4238 Posted October 11, 2018  If Labour do that with the aim of forcing a GE, will they do ok in it, or suffer a backlash from middle of the road Labour supporters?  It might suffer a backlash from right wing Labour supporters but given that the vast majority of Labour supporters voted remain, that backlash will be minimised and probably offset by some remain Tories, Lib Dems and Greens.  In terms of a general election, Brexit supporting Labour voters may have voted in large numbers in certain constituencies (Sunderland, Ebbw Vale etc.) but those constituencies were relatively few and those Labour votes are very likely to go to a revitalised UKIP rather than the Tories who will be seen to have sold out Brexit every bit as much as Labour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Litotes   63 #4239 Posted October 11, 2018 There is no Father Christmas and there will be no second referendum. Perhaps, it's time you grew up.  Perhaps the government should respect the right of the majority now who are asking for a second referendum? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
woodview   10 #4240 Posted October 11, 2018 It might suffer a backlash from right wing Labour supporters but given that the vast majority of Labour supporters voted remain, that backlash will be minimised and probably offset by some remain Tories, Lib Dems and Greens. In terms of a general election, Brexit supporting Labour voters may have voted in large numbers in certain constituencies (Sunderland, Ebbw Vale etc.) but those constituencies were relatively few and those Labour votes are very likely to go to a revitalised UKIP rather than the Tories who will be seen to have sold out Brexit every bit as much as Labour. To an extent. But would the mix be: all tories stay tory, labour lose 'Sunderlands' and quite a few others to tories or ukip (??) . Still means Labour get a reduced tally. Personally, I think the backlash would be strong. Breaking a 'reasonable' deal in the commons for political games would be very unpopular imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Top Cats Hat   10 #4241 Posted October 11, 2018  Personally, I think the backlash would be strong. Breaking a 'reasonable' deal in the commons for political games would be very unpopular imo.  There is no such thing as a reasonable deal, as all deals will be deeply damaging to the UK economy.  If Labour are going to retain their pro-Brexit stand, a better strategy would be to advocate putting an indefinite hold on the March 29th deadline to review the whole mess, which could include an option for another referendum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
woodview   10 #4242 Posted October 11, 2018 There is no such thing as a reasonable deal, as all deals will be deeply damaging to the UK economy.  If Labour are going to retain their pro-Brexit stand, a better strategy would be to advocate putting an indefinite hold on the March 29th deadline to review the whole mess, which could include an option for another referendum. Ok, that's your opinion, and the line Labour may take. But that would then be judged by the nation. If a proprtion of their support believed the deal was actually OK, labour will suffer big time. They need to think carefully about whether they are playing games, or being genuine, if they vote down a deal with the DUP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Lockdoctor   10 #4243 Posted October 11, 2018 Perhaps the government should respect the right of the majority now who are asking for a second referendum? The Government have spent over two years attempting to respect the wishes of the real majority, who voted to leave the EU in the 2016 EU referendum vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Top Cats Hat   10 #4244 Posted October 11, 2018  But that would then be judged by the nation. If a proprtion of their support believed the deal was actually OK, labour will suffer big time.  As I said earlier, all deals will damage the UK economy and as always, the poorest among us will suffer worst and that means Labour voters by and large.  Labour's best chance of power is to sack off Brexit altogether, force a general election then make Brexit the core election issue. I have always maintained that Labour standing on an anti Brexit ticket would not only garner significant support from remain Tories, Greens and Lib Dems but ironically the economic and financial markets would rally sterling at the prospect of a return to stability even if it was in the shape of a left of centre Corbyn government. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
I1L2T3   10 #4245 Posted October 11, 2018 You're spouting utter dishonest nonsense. During the last two years those who don't respect the democratic decision made by the UK people have been prolific at attempting to block the decision the democratic UK people made. The only people who deserve a say in how the UK exit the EU are the democratic people who voted to leave the EU, who were on the winning side of the democratic vote. As the democratic EU referendum was conducted by secret ballot,there is no way of verifying the democratic people who voted to leave the EU, so it is up to Parliament to either accept the agreement our Government make with the EU or reject the deal, meaning the UK leave the EU without a trade deal.  No I’m not spouting nonsense.  You want any old Brexit, as long as it’s Brexit, regardless of the consequences.  The democratic people deserve better than to have those like yourself working against their interests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
woodview   10 #4246 Posted October 11, 2018 As I said earlier, all deals will damage the UK economy and as always, the poorest among us will suffer worst and that means Labour voters by and large. Labour's best chance of power is to sack off Brexit altogether, force a general election then make Brexit the core election issue. I have always maintained that Labour standing on an anti Brexit ticket would not only garner significant support from remain Tories, Greens and Lib Dems but ironically the economic and financial markets would rally sterling at the prospect of a return to stability even if it was in the shape of a left of centre Corbyn government. A free trade deal won't damage the poorest. I'd be interested how Labour can justifiable oppose that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
truman   10 #4247 Posted October 11, 2018 You're spouting utter dishonest nonsense. During the last two years those who don't respect the democratic decision made by the UK people have been prolific at attempting to block the decision the democratic UK people made. The only people who deserve a say in how the UK exit the EU are the democratic people who voted to leave the EU, who were on the winning side of the democratic vote. As the democratic EU referendum was conducted by secret ballot,there is no way of verifying the democratic people who voted to leave the EU, so it is up to Parliament to either accept the agreement our Government make with the EU or reject the deal, meaning the UK leave the EU without a trade deal.  How very democratic of you..will they also be the ones called upon to pay for any economic disaster after brexit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
phil752 Â Â 10 #4248 Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) How very democratic of you..will they also be the ones called upon to pay for any economic disaster after brexit? Â there has been decades of sewing the EU into a tangled unit, the woman had it write on QT the other week when she said every one is stumped, how to get out. The only way is to not negotiate just tare it up and bag out. Edited October 12, 2018 by phil752 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...