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18-03-2018, 23:11   #941
hackey lad
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Originally Posted by dave_the_m View Post
We don't know. Everyone concerned is being very cagey about releasing details.
Says all we need to know really I suppose someone could ask Brain Lodge , everyone knows he is forthright and honest
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18-03-2018, 23:23   #942
monkey104
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Why on earth would we do that? I don't want half of Sheffield's street trees replaced with saplings.

A lot of people donít care and donít want the police wasting their time and our tax money policing the wants of a minority.

I agree wholeheartedly. However, the protesters aren't stopping the police from getting on with what they should be doing. We all think that having 30+ police attending peaceful demonstrations is a ridiculous mis-allocation of resources. (And it's still the case that no protester has been charged with any offence, despite all the headllne arrests.)

Peaceful protests! Have you seen the so called peaceful protesters on YouTube? Itís very embarrassing to watch.

The protests are mainly costing Amey money, not SCC. Admittedly SCC did blow about £70K on a misguided and failed private prosecution of a Green Party councillor, but that's their stupid fault.
So STAG do not have an issue with Amey or the council contract then.
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18-03-2018, 23:31   #943
hackey lad
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So STAG do not have an issue with Amey or the council contract then.
????? Don't know what you read , but I understood that clearly
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19-03-2018, 06:30   #944
dave_the_m
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Peaceful protests! Have you seen the so called peaceful protesters on YouTube? Itís very embarrassing to watch.
Yes, I have watched most of the videos, and have been present at protests. What mostly happens is that protesters stand peacefully somewhere which impedes the felling. The SIA and/or police go through the agreed five stage warning procedure, after which the protesters either agree at that point to leave, or are are carried away unresisting. This warning procedure was put into place to avoid the injuries that occurred on MPR in January.

There was one recent incident where the SIA types grabbed a protester without warning, and swung him around with considerable force - causing another elderly female protester who the first protester had been assisting, to be flung to the floor like a rag doll, and who had to be taken to hospital. The protester who had been grabbed was then manhandled by 5 SIAs and reacted the way most of us would have.

If the SIAs had followed the protocol they were supposed to have, no one would have got hurt.

And still no protester has been charged with any crime. Quite remarkable given that there have now been thousands of protest events spread over three years. If the vast majority of protesters hadn't been consistently peaceful, often in the face of considerable provocation (e.g. being spat at by arbs), there would have been a lot of convictions by now.
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19-03-2018, 07:11   #945
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Originally Posted by dave_the_m View Post
........
..........
And still no protester has been charged with any crime.........
This is not strictly true.
No protester has been charged for anything related to violence, but protesters have undergone arrests for other "offences" and some have been charged.
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19-03-2018, 07:22   #946
dave_the_m
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This is not strictly true.
No protester has been charged for anything related to violence, but protesters have undergone arrests for other "offences" and some have been charged.
I'm not aware of anyone having been charged for anything (apart from Simon's dropped charge for highway obstruction). Do you have any details?
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19-03-2018, 08:50   #947
monkey104
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Originally Posted by dave_the_m View Post
Yes, I have watched most of the videos, and have been present at protests. What mostly happens is that protesters stand peacefully somewhere which impedes the felling. The SIA and/or police go through the agreed five stage warning procedure, after which the protesters either agree at that point to leave, or are are carried away unresisting. This warning procedure was put into place to avoid the injuries that occurred on MPR in January.

There was one recent incident where the SIA types grabbed a protester without warning, and swung him around with considerable force - causing another elderly female protester who the first protester had been assisting, to be flung to the floor like a rag doll, and who had to be taken to hospital. The protester who had been grabbed was then manhandled by 5 SIAs and reacted the way most of us would have.

If the SIAs had followed the protocol they were supposed to have, no one would have got hurt.

And still no protester has been charged with any crime. Quite remarkable given that there have now been thousands of protest events spread over three years. If the vast majority of protesters hadn't been consistently peaceful, often in the face of considerable provocation (e.g. being spat at by arbs), there would have been a lot of convictions by now.
See, you watch that clip as an interested party and you see an assault.
I watch it and see a group of elderly folk acting like nineties hippy tree huggers
( Swampy et al) who cry assault at the first sign of being approached by security.
By the way, you know what happened to the Newbury bypass donít you.
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19-03-2018, 11:46   #948
dave_the_m
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See, you watch that clip as an interested party and you see an assault.
I watch it and see a group of elderly folk acting like nineties hippy tree huggers
( Swampy et al) who cry assault at the first sign of being approached by security.
I saw an elderly lady (who suffers from MS) being thrown to the floor by SIA security. She was eventually taken to A&E by the police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey104 View Post
By the way, you know what happened to the Newbury bypass donít you.
In the last 3 weeks Amey have managed to fell 7 trees. This compares with the average of
60+ per 3 weeks which they were achieving until protesters started slowing things down.
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19-03-2018, 14:44   #949
monkey104
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Originally Posted by dave_the_m View Post
I saw an elderly lady (who suffers from MS) being thrown to the floor by SIA security. She was eventually taken to A&E by the police.



In the last 3 weeks Amey have managed to fell 7 trees. This compares with the average of
60+ per 3 weeks which they were achieving until protesters started slowing things down.
Good grief! You canít even see the evidence with your own eyes. She is in an area she shouldnít be. Security werenít even dealing with her. She fell because she was holding on to that other idiot that was being removed.
Itís not peaceful protest when you are entering an excluded area to prevent lawful work from happening.
Stop wasting my tax money because like the Newbury bypass, itís going to happen. You may be delaying the inevitable but at a hell of a cost to Sheffield taxpayers.
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19-03-2018, 15:22   #950
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Stop wasting my tax money because like the Newbury bypass, itís going to happen. .
I'm curious as to why you're referencing a very old campaign like the Newbury bypass? Why not something more modern and relevant?
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19-03-2018, 15:24   #951
Staunton
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Good grief! You canít even see the evidence with your own eyes. She is in an area she shouldnít be. Security werenít even dealing with her. She fell because she was holding on to that other idiot that was being removed.
Itís not peaceful protest when you are entering an excluded area to prevent lawful work from happening.
Stop wasting my tax money because like the Newbury bypass, itís going to happen. You may be delaying the inevitable but at a hell of a cost to Sheffield taxpayers.
Your message appears to communicate some concern about your tax money. Perhaps you would like to tell us how you feel about your taxes being handed over to a tax avoiding multinational?
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19-03-2018, 16:34   #952
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Amey plc is part of Grupo Ferrovial, the Spanish company that just happens to own more than twenty subsidiaries domiciled in tax havens. I wonder why?
Because it's legal to do so?
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19-03-2018, 17:26   #953
dave_the_m
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Good grief! You canít even see the evidence with your own eyes. She is in an area she shouldnít be. Security werenít even dealing with her. She fell because she was holding on to that other idiot that was being removed.
Itís not peaceful protest when you are entering an excluded area to prevent lawful work from happening.
She fell down because the bouncer was using excessive force and was ignoring the protocol agreed upon with police to avoid incidents like that.

Also, you have an exceedingly odd definition of peaceful.
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19-03-2018, 18:06   #954
Staunton
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Because it's legal to do so?
It is legal - we have the Old Boy network to thank for that. The system has been taken over by vested interests. It's called neoliberalism.

Neoliberals believe that there should be no public sector beyond a small police force to protect private property, they plan that all public services should be privatised - handed over to tax abusers like Amey, G4S, Serco, Capita, etc, and they insist in deregulation so that nobody can hold these companies to account when they fail.
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19-03-2018, 18:32   #955
monkey104
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Originally Posted by dave_the_m View Post
She fell down because the bouncer was using excessive force and was ignoring the protocol agreed upon with police to avoid incidents like that.

Also, you have an exceedingly odd definition of peaceful.
She fell because she was holding on to idiot number 1 who was being removed by security. You can clearly see they were not holding her at this point as they had ready let go of her.

So you were not being peaceful then.
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19-03-2018, 20:10   #956
dave_the_m
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She fell because she was holding on to idiot number 1 who was being removed by security. You can clearly see they were not holding her at this point as they had ready let go of her.

So you were not being peaceful then.
She fell because the bouncers were using illegal excessive force, and in direct violation of their procedural agreement with the police.

It is perfectly possible to be both peaceful and perform an illegal act - c.f. Ghandi, MLK.
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19-03-2018, 22:22   #957
1978
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He said, he did, she says, she did and after all the name calling, legal actions and protests most of the condemned trees have gone and their replacements are becoming established.

When I drive down Abbeydale Park Rise from the top I see newly planted trees and older trees all of which are appropriate now and likely to be for many years. Further down I pass the battle zone, there's no other way it can be described. There are some large trees that are swollen and twisted into strange shapes, most of which have now lost many of their upper branches prior to felling.

In spring they used to put on a brilliant show of pink blossom. They won't this year after lopping. Their trunks are swelling out a little further each year and and the pavement around them has been repaired more than once. There's no doubt that the Christmas lights display on Abbeydale Park Rise is brilliant and removal of the trees will reduce the impact for several years.

I have no knowledge of diseases in trees, but their trunks don't look well, however left on their own they'd probably live many years. Unfortunately, whether we call it criminal damage, vandalism or legitimate tree surgery the trees are now in a state that is best resolved by completing the felling and getting the new trees in and established as soon as possible.

The road and pavements can then be relaid, they need it, and in 10-20 years there'll be some good sized trees once again. There won't be a shortage of trees in that area as almost every household garden in all the local roads has trees, and they're growing fast. 100 years ago it was green fields with a few boundary trees only.

Leaving the trees in their present state is unsatisfactory, both for those who want them preserved as well as those who'd like to see them gone.

Last edited by 1978; 19-03-2018 at 22:37. Reason: Finished final sentence
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19-03-2018, 23:00   #958
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6000 trees have gone, 17500 is the target in the contract. And the replacements won't be established for years, mostly they haven't even been planted. They won't be mature until after the contract with Amey has finished (and isn't that a coincidence).
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19-03-2018, 23:17   #959
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Isn't it remarkable, Social Care is suffering chronic underfunding, Childrens Services is in crisis, but Sheffield City Council can make substantial funds available for security operations around the city's trees?

Last edited by Staunton; 19-03-2018 at 23:20.
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19-03-2018, 23:58   #960
yourhouse
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Because it's legal to do so?
Legal or otherwise, if you had the best interests of Sheffield/the UK, why would you advocate using a non-accountable multi-national that has breached health and Safety (prosecuted for a death) to (I allege) fraudulently obtain a contract to undertake maintenance of the highways?

They were supposed to resurface my street last June, but they have yet to do it, probably because it doesn't have any street trees - where's the fun in resurfacing a street without being able to fell trees and waste the taxes of Sheffield residents. Do Amey/SIA/police care, they don't live here, they don't pay tax here, their streets are not being butchered, communities ripped apart?

Responsibility lies squarely with the SCC inner cabinet who have persistently failed to properly fund the proper management of the street trees and highways over the past 20-30 years.

They don't represent me, they don't fool me, they are weak minded individuals who have no moral fibre and can't simply admit that they got it wrong and make it right.

---------- Post added 20-03-2018 at 00:08 ----------

Having spoken to the police officer in charge, they are claiming that they are policing the tree felling because there has been a significant change in the tactics used by the tree protectors.

This is rubbish.

The only change that has occurred is that AMEY/SIA decided that they would start to use 'reasonable' force, prior to that they had just behaved like goons.

So, what an excuse? SYP are policing the fellings because AMEY decided to up the anti. Let's be clear and ensure that we all are informed about this.

Everyone in Sheffield is being played by Amey and because SCC have signed a self-monitoring contract and the Councillors have no backbone or are simply too stupid to realise, Amey are going home every night just a little bit more wealthy as a result.

Last edited by yourhouse; 20-03-2018 at 00:08.
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