Freemasons..harmless eccentrics or tools of the Devil?

You really are desperate to deviate from the issue aren't you?

 

It matters not what the Lodge is called or even where it is, the fact is that David Duckenfield was a Mastermason, and so possibly were other members of the same police force. This was deemed to be of sufficient interest to be implicated in the Hillsborough enquiry, which took 30+ years of obfuscation and cover ups to reach its conclusion.

 

People are free to draw their own conclusions.

Not really desperate to deviate no. I'm pointing out your errors of fact which you fail to retract. This is to show that your constant claiming of things as "facts" is anything such.

It is to deomstrate your assertions that he was a) grand master and b) Brian Mole was also in the same lodge and c) half the coppers at Hillsborough were MAsons are all based on not the slightest shred of evidence. Youve introduced another term - what on earth is a Mastermason?

IF you cannot even get the terminology correct (a Masonic Lodge is a group of people that have a common purpose and they meet in a Masonic Hall - which can have many lodges) then the rest of your argument falls apart because it's based on a pack of what I would describe as fanciful thinking.

In other words - it's a load of cobblers.

Bleedin' 'eck there thousands of em'. and this is just in Sheffield.

* taken from the above link.

 

Craft Lodges

Britannia -Cathedral -Concordia -Ensor -Dury -Fellowship

Furnival -Hadassah -Hallamshire -Hillsborough -Ivanhoe

Lodge of Industry -Lodge of South Yorks. -Nevil-Talbot -Pathfinder -Royal Brunswick

Sheaf -St. Leonard’s -St. Phillip’s -Strafford

University -Waltheof -Welcome -Wentworth -White Rose of York

 

Royal Arch Chapters

Chapter of Loyalty -Chapter of Paradise -Fellowship -Hallamshire -Hillsborough

-Installed Principals -St. Audrey -St. Leonard’s -St. Philip’s -University

-Welcome -White Rose of York

 

Rose Croix Chapter

Talbot -Welcome -De Lovetot -Hallam

 

Red Cross of Constantine

White Rose -Royal Standard

 

Mark Master Masons

Britannia -Cleeves -Lascelles -Sincerity -Escafeld

-Vulcan

 

S.R.I.A.

Hallamshire College -Masonic Study Circle

 

Royal and Select Masters

Hallamshire College

Those are just the ones that meet at the Masonic Hall in Shore Lane, and are in the province of Yorkshire, West Riding. Dore Masonic Hall is in the Province of Derbyshire, and is home to about a dozen Craft Lodges, a couple of Chapters, and a few other Orders.

Those are just the ones that meet at the Masonic Hall in Shore Lane, and are in the province of Yorkshire, West Riding. Dore Masonic Hall is in the Province of Derbyshire, and is home to about a dozen Craft Lodges, a couple of Chapters, and a few other Orders.

looking up I didn't past the Derbyshire link in properly did I....

http://www.derbyshiremason.org/Pages/WhereWeMeet.aspx

I see all of the 'useful idiots' are out in force to defend what presents itself to the public almost as a charitable co-operative with big dinners, but in reality operates behind the scenes as a secret society to exert control and influence over the affairs of non-freemasons.

If you cross them, beware - they will exert their tentacles to make sure you finish up on the losing side as they have only contempt for the profane.

Well at least they haven't stooped to rude insults.

I have never been a 'useful idiot' before, thanks!

Not really desperate to deviate no. I'm pointing out your errors of fact which you fail to retract. This is to show that your constant claiming of things as "facts" is anything such.

 

It is to deomstrate your assertions that he was a) grand master and b) Brian Mole was also in the same lodge and c) half the coppers at Hillsborough were MAsons are all based on not the slightest shred of evidence. Youve introduced another term - what on earth is a Mastermason?

 

IF you cannot even get the terminology correct (a Masonic Lodge is a group of people that have a common purpose and they meet in a Masonic Hall - which can have many lodges) then the rest of your argument falls apart because it's based on a pack of what I would describe as fanciful thinking.

 

 

 

In other words - it's a load of cobblers.

Dear God, how pathetically pedantic can you get? If I cannot get the exact terminology right it's because I am not a Mason, I therefore bow to your greater knowledge on the minutiae of Freemasonry, I take it you are..

None of this detracts from the facts that David Duckenfield by his own admission was a Mason, and this was thought by QC Michael Mansfield (and the Hillsborough victims families,) to have a bearing on the case.

" Duckenfield became a Mason in 1975, had been part of the organisation for 14 years at the time of the Hillsborough disaster, becoming a Worshipful Master of his local Lodge a year later.'

'At the time it was not seen as acceptable to be a senior policeman and a Freemason.' ... Can you tell me why not?

'Hillsborough Commander (Duckenfield) was in same Lodge as the officer he replaced (Brian Mole)

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-03-12/duckenfield-i-was-freemason/

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-commander-david-duckenfield-same-8124374

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/17/hillsborough-disaster-police-masonic-conspiracy

Now what exactly was wrong enough to garner your description of 'a load of cobblers?'

To get back to the original point of the Thread (remember that?) IMO Freemasonry and other influential secret societies are open to claims of corruption in high places, and therefore have no place in government organisations.

A police constable said under oath in court, that 'a substantial meeting' was held with other officers who were also suspected of being Masons'

Wow, a major disaster and police officers are holding a substantial meeting. Who would have thought it?

The suspicion of other officers being masons is nothing more than a bit of mud slinging and possible deflection and skin saving. The accusations were made some years ago, your links are from 2014. So, what happened - were they proven true?

You need to spend less time reading random sources and quoting them as fact - not just in this thread, but just about any you post on - before you get into serious trouble.

i'm sure most Masons are perfectly nice fellows.

 

It's when you get up to the top of professions (politicians, judges, bankers, police etc.) and you wield real power it starts to get suspect and ripe for corruption.

If people are going to collude for their own nefarious ends then they are going to do whether they are in the Freemasons or not.

Dear God, how pathetically pedantic can you get? If I cannot get the exact terminology right it's because I am not a Mason, I therefore bow to your greater knowledge on the minutiae of Freemasonry, I take it you are..

 

None of this detracts from the facts that David Duckenfield by his own admission was a Mason, and this was thought by QC Michael Mansfield (and the Hillsborough victims families,) to have a bearing on the case.

 

" Duckenfield became a Mason in 1975, had been part of the organisation for 14 years at the time of the Hillsborough disaster, becoming a Worshipful Master of his local Lodge a year later.'

'At the time it was not seen as acceptable to be a senior policeman and a Freemason.' ... Can you tell me why not?

'Hillsborough Commander (Duckenfield) was in same Lodge as the officer he replaced (Brian Mole)

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-03-12/duckenfield-i-was-freemason/

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-commander-david-duckenfield-same-8124374

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/17/hillsborough-disaster-police-masonic-conspiracy

 

Now what exactly was wrong enough to garner your description of 'a load of cobblers?'

 

To get back to the original point of the Thread (remember that?) IMO Freemasonry and other influential secret societies are open to claims of corruption in high places, and therefore have no place in government organisations.

I understand where people have a dislike and distrust of such organisations,and whilst i defend the unproven allegations against them i don't necessarily approve of them(but for different reasons) however its pure speculation and thoughts not evidentiary proof of anything.

Any organisation has the opportunity to be corrupt and influential to differing degrees.

Its like reading a Dan Brown novel sometimes.

Dear God, how pathetically pedantic can you get? If I cannot get the exact terminology right it's because I am not a Mason, I therefore bow to your greater knowledge on the minutiae of Freemasonry, I take it you are..

And you would be wrong yet again Anna...

Being correct matters. When you lie like you do and then fail to retract it means you have zero credibility. As long as you carry on simply making stuff up out of whatever you feel is bad I'll be here to correct those mistakes.

IMO Freemasonry and other influential secret societies are open to claims of corruption in high places, and therefore have no place in government organisations.

The WI are as secret as the Masons. Should be ban them?

What about Rotary International? (I do belong to that one as it happens.)

Things that you posted that are a load of cobblers...

1. Names of the lodge

2. Difference between a lodge and a hall - thats the difference between a school teachers class and the school building. BASIC error....

3. Implying that Duckenfield was master of all the masons in the Hall when at best he was (and no evidence that Ive seen) a master mason in a lodge

4. implying a master mason controls a lodge - most craft masons are master masons. You probably got confused with Grand Master of the lodge...

5. implying that all the police that are masons are colluding

6. implying a meeting of senior officers after one of the worst disasters in sheffield is somehow dodgy

I could go on but....

What about Common Purpose?