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The end of the Labour party

Where will Labour be a year from now?  

171 members have voted

  1. 1. Where will Labour be a year from now?

    • Intact with Jeremy Corbyn in charge
      57
    • Intact with somebody else in charge
      20
    • Split with Corbyn running the remains of Labour
      32
    • Split with Corbyn running a break-away party
      9
    • The matter will still be unresolved
      21
    • The whole party will collapse
      26
    • Something I haven't thought of
      6


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I'm confused. Anti-semitism = hostility or prejudice against Jews

Anti-anti-semitism = against discrimination aimed at Jews.

 

So you would complain about the anti-anti-semites if you were prejudiced against Jews. Labour have always harboured borderline or actual anti-semites.

 

I would agree. Jeff's post doesn't make any sense.

 

Antisemitism does not mean against hostility towards Jews but one must conclude Jeff thinks Semitism means hostilty towards Jews.

 

It doesn't Jeff.

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 19:33 ----------

 

It was indeed correct. Labour used to be anti-semitic [= against discrimination aimed at Jews]; that seems no longer to be the case.

 

What sort of gobbledygook is this?

Edited by Santo

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Semite is a racial term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

It has a complicated history, but to a first approximation it's white people from the middle-east.

 

This is all technicality though and the term anti-semitism has evolved (based on a very poor approximation that the Jews are Semites and the Semites are Jews) to mean anti-Jews.

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Semite is a racial term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

It has a complicated history, but to a first approximation it's white people from the middle-east.

 

This is all technicality though and the term anti-semitism has evolved (based on a very poor approximation that the Jews are Semites and the Semites are Jews) to mean anti-Jews.

 

Can you fathom what Jeff means?

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Can you fathom what Jeff means?

 

It is obvious to all what Jeff means

 

But it cannot be said of Jeremy Corbyn

 

As he clearly explains here:

 

Jeff, could you watch the above please

 

Am interested in your subsequent opinion

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 22:12 ----------

 

According to polling almost twice as many Labour voters picked Remain over Leave. The only party to have most of its supporters oppose its leader’s view was the Conservatives. Not that that would lead you to the conclusion that that meant it was the end of the Conservative Party.

 

People keep conveniently forgetting this part! :mad:

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Can you fathom what Jeff means?

 

It's just a misunderstanding as far as I can tell. Either he's misunderstood the term, or the post wasn't intended to say what were reading it as.

Either way, I think there's a consensus as to what the term means on the thread now.

 

Ardent Socialists tend to sympathise with those they see as the down-trodden and assume that they're the good guys. No terrorists, only freedom-fighters and so on. They also demonise the other side. Black and white thinking I suppose. It's kind of childish in my view.

In the 50's and early 60's Socialists were generally sympathetic with the Jews, then Israel started standing up for itself rather impressively, won the six-day way war and the Jews lost their weak victim image. The "Palestinians" became the weak victims worthy of sympathy and could do no wrong, and Israel (and thereby the Jews in general) became the "Baddies" in the new Socialist world-view.

 

This is all of course a crude opinion on the group-think trends of the socialist movement and not intended as a mind-reading recipe for any socialist one comes across.

Edited by unbeliever

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It's kind of childish in my view

 

Are you saying the genocide of Palestinians is childish, unbeliever?

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Are you saying the genocide of Palestinians is childish, unbeliever?

 

Are you claiming there has been a genocide?

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I never knew sol - and sadly that 2014 article isn't going to clear things up. How many palistinians have been killed this year by Israeli security forces?

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The Indy? I was expecting something from outside the MSM since you regularly accuse them of bias when it suits.

 

Your hypocrisy is worth no more of my time.

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Civilian casualties in war or military action are a great tragedy which we should all seek to avoid.

However calling it "genocide" is profoundly wrong, and I must object.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention

Genocide is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".

 

Israel has been in control of the west bank and gaza since 1967, almost 50 years, during which time the standard of living, life expectancy and civil rights of the people living there have been dramatically enhanced. They've also experienced massive population growth.

 

If Israel wanted to destroy the "Palestinians", they've have been dead for decades. Their situation is unsatisfactory, as it has been since Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq rejected the 1948 UN mandate for Palestine and instead attempted to "drive the Jews into the sea". Fortunately they failed but we've been living with the mess they created ever since. If not for this, there'd have been a state of Palestine for 70 years now.

 

The attempts to place all the blame for the current situation on Israel are ridiculous. Although I do not contend that they are blameless. When such emphatic, ignorant and unjustified hatred is directed at Israel apparently for making some mistakes whilst surviving multiple existential crises; people naturally speculate about where such cognitive dissonance arises from.

Edited by unbeliever

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