Ms Macbeth   73 #37 Posted August 27, 2017 What type of work do you think they should do? What work gives us :-  social contacts and support a way of structuring and occupying our time physically and mental activity an opportunity to develop and use skills social status a sense of identity and personal achievement money and other resources needed for material well-being.  Studies show that work is generally good for health. As well as a financial reward, it gives many of us self-esteem, companionship and status.  There is good evidence that being out of work or 'workless' is bad for your health.  People who are unemployed :-  have poorer physical and mental health overall consult their GP more are more likely to be admitted to hospital have higher death rates  http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/usefulresources/workandmentalhealth/worker/isworkgoodforyou.aspx  Perhaps Remploy should not have been closed. I worked as a wages clerk for Remploy in one of their Scottish factories back in the 60s. People with a wide range of disabilities were employed there. Although equalities legislation has necessarily moved forward a great deal, some of my former colleagues would have had little chance of finding alternative employment.  It was considered paternalistic and outdated. However, it did offer paid work, in a safe environment. Surely that's a better option than being isolated, and existing solely on benefits. It obviously wouldn't be for everyone with a disability, but it could have remained as one of the options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Cyclone   10 #38 Posted August 27, 2017 If half the effort that goes into bemoaning the poor deal for the disabled went instead into organising the help they need, then they would be that much better off. All you're giving me here is excuses. So you're saying that instead of "moaning" about how the government is screwing people over. Private citizens should instead go out to fix it?  We pay taxes for a reason you know, it's not so that we can then go and fix social problems using the money that is left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid   218 #39 Posted August 27, 2017 I'd agree with most of that, which begs the question why such places as Remploy were shut down? Nothing since has been able to make up the shortfall.  There is no reason why some could not do ordinary jobs, I would not have closed Remploy. With the minimum wage increasing, employers are trying the squeeze the last minute out of each employee. Employers should get a 2 year tax break if they employ people that have some sort of disability. I see no reason why it should be the hard working poor, that are the only ones doing the dirty jobs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hairyloon   10 #40 Posted August 27, 2017 So you're saying that instead of "moaning" about how the government is screwing people over. Private citizens should instead go out to fix it? Why not do both? Let's be honest, we do all enjoy moaning. The bottom line is that if society cannot be bothered to find the decent people and get them into parliament then it will get the government that it deserves.  We pay taxes for a reason you know, it's not so that we can then go and fix social problems using the money that is left.  I've already explained that it should not take a lot (if any) to prime the pump, so to speak: after the first few cases the next can be funded the money won off the government... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Ms Macbeth   73 #41 Posted August 27, 2017 There is no reason why some could not do ordinary jobs, I would not have closed Remploy. With the minimum wage increasing, employers are trying the squeeze the last minute out of each employee. Employers should get a 2 year tax break if they employ people that have some sort of disability. I see no reason why it should be the hard working poor, that are the only ones doing the dirty jobs.  I agree many people with disabilities can work in ordinary jobs, have careers etc. But some are limited by the scope of their disability or condition. Remploy filled a gap, but was expensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hairyloon   10 #42 Posted August 27, 2017 In my experience, a lot of disabled people are entirely capable of work, but not all of the time and not reliably so. They therefore have little or no chance of holding down any kind of normal job. And if they do anything to try and work within the parameters of their disability, the DWP will see that as proof positive that they are ineligible for benefit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid   218 #43 Posted August 27, 2017 In my experience, a lot of disabled people are entirely capable of work, but not all of the time and not reliably so. They therefore have little or no chance of holding down any kind of normal job. And if they do anything to try and work within the parameters of their disability, the DWP will see that as proof positive that they are ineligible for benefit.  Work is always positive, but the application of Tory benefit rules is causing real problems, for all benefit claimants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hairyloon   10 #44 Posted August 27, 2017 Work is always positive, but the application of Tory benefit rules is causing real problems, for all benefit claimants.  Fixed that for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B Â Â 1,414 #45 Posted August 27, 2017 Why not do both? Let's be honest, we do all enjoy moaning. The bottom line is that if society cannot be bothered to find the decent people and get them into parliament then it will get the government that it deserves. Â Â I've already explained that it should not take a lot (if any) to prime the pump, so to speak: after the first few cases the next can be funded the money won off the government... Â We get the politicians that have been chosen for us via party shortlists that we have no control over. Independent candidates have little to no hope of ever getting elected. Â But this is for another thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hairyloon   10 #46 Posted August 27, 2017 But this is for another thread.  Yeah, but which one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
the_bloke   17 #47 Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) In the 3 short years from 2011 to 2014, 2,380 people died after their claim for employment and support allowance ended because a work capability assessment found they were found fit for work. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures  But that's not the actual facts behind the figures.  https://fullfact.org/economy/reporting-fit-work-deaths-isnt-fit-purpose/  'The figures show the number of people who had been found "fit for work", and who died within weeks of their claim ending. They cover the period from late 2011 to early 2014. It's likely that in many of these cases, the person dying was why the claim ended.'  'In this case, the number of people dying within two weeks of a claim ending is not the same as the number of people who died within two weeks of being found "fit for work"'  So, why would the Guardian manage to interpret the figures totally to support their own agenda? I wonder. Edited August 27, 2017 by the_bloke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hairyloon   10 #48 Posted August 27, 2017 'The figures show the number of people who had been found "fit for work", and who died within weeks of their claim ending. They cover the period from late 2011 to early 2014. It's likely that in many of these cases, the person dying was why the claim ended.' 'In this case, the number of people dying within two weeks of a claim ending is not the same as the number of people who died within two weeks of being found "fit for work"'  So they are found fit for work, their claim ends because they are not capable of looking hard enough for work and then they die. However way you look at that, it is not good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...