PRclaim

http://www.theaa.com always works for me

What I´m saying is that the water company has certain fixed costs (staff, infrastructure, vehicles, building maintenance etc) these do not change if we use less water and they need to be covered, along with a legally allowed profit. As you say ratepayers pay more right now so if they switch to meters they will pay (and the water company will receive) less money. If we all have meters and use less water then the price will go up, it will keep going up until the above is covered. As use decreases so unit cost will have to rise, currently Yorkshire water sells water at 0.2pence per litre, can I imagine a world in 10 years where they sell it at 15 pence a litre, a rise of just 7500% , yes absolutely - they´d tell you it was a bargain.

Not sure I agree with her. Mainly because it vastly increases the cost of providing them the new lives and identities they will have. I have noticed also that David Cameron has vowed to publish their names if elected, shameless populist tw*t, he really is the new Blair.

As this is clearly a genius idea perhaps we should expand on it. In Kylie's cabinet I would like to see Jeremy Clarkson as Minister for Sense. In this newly created role we would cut through all the swathes of red tape and 'thinking'. He would spend his entire day being explained what a particular problem was and then being asked for the solution, with the rules stating that each issue, including the question, could take no more than 60 seconds to ask Jeremy. In turn his response would be limited to three sentences (although in practice only highly complicated issues would ever require more than six words) Who else have we got?

You dodged my question about age, but that is right and proper, it was a little rude of me to be so blunt. So you wonder if you had been brought up differently, would you be significantly different to the person you are now? I'd suggest the simple answer is yes, and the degree to which you would differ is proportionate to how differently you were raised. I don't know if you've ever read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, I don't like referencing fiction in any debate but I think that book deals with these questions very well. Your last point has me a little confused, but it is late. So you want to do some things that you know are wrong?

How old are you though Gothic? I'm in my mid thirties and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'm older than you. I didn't think I was anything like my parents, however having recently bought a camper van and, goshdarnit, realised that I do enjoy listening to a bit of Country and Western (Charley Pride, Tammy, Cash & Parton, not the new stuff which is clearly sh*te) I realise that it is inevitable, even my knees ache, we become our parents, the older I get the more it seems inescapable. If you accept this then I think the answer is just to go with it, accept and embrace the guidance and example you were given, try to improve on it where you can. There should be a word for it, maybe evolution. Of course, to get back on topic, if your example from you parents has been that no one gives a **** about about you, you are worthless and to be despised then perhaps, just perhaps, this might explain why you go out out and do things that get you blanket media coverage and morons calling for your execution. Then again maybe it's all your fault. PS - in the last paragraph the words you and your obvoiously do not refer to you.

Touche Entwhistle, touche. Silence the debate, let no more be said. The wittiest comment ever has been witnessed by the humble members of this forum.

I personally think your first point is a fascinating one, I'm not sure why it would be the case but I can already see the likelihood. As for your comment on nature/nurture, my old mum described it thus; (you should know that she's into astrology and crystals, just to put things in context) "When we are born we are like a perfect round ball. Experiences and events will dent and shape the ball as it travels down life's road (hokey I know) but the essential sphere is what it is and ever was." It ended better than that but I can't remember, I was sniffing gas whilst she said it.

So succinct, yet so evasive. I (not now caring if you think I am correct or not) conclude you are a troll. In many ways it is a comfort that you do not actually hold the opinions you are expressing, hell, in many ways I bet you're a nice guy.

Entwhistle, I think I answered your question but you have made no response, am I to conclude that you have now seen reason and agree with me?

There is a huge spectrum of opinion here and it's understandable given the abhorrent nature of what took place that people feel moved to comment. I don't normally feel the need to enter into debates on internet forums about any criminal case, but hearing this on the news did affect me, it affected that part of me deep inside that has no answers, it just thinks why? How the hell did something like this happen? Anyway, enough introspection. Lady, the parents should be blamed for what happened, social services do share some responsibility . Sympathy for these boys? I'm afraid to say yes. It is a measured sympathy, it is a sympathy that does not want to reward them, but it does want to recognise that they might have been damaged by an upbringing which (I understand) includes being dosed with cannabis to knock them out so the feckless mother can get on with her car-crash lifestyle. It's not right what they were taught about the world. Would you treat your kids like that? I imagine you wouldn't, and why not? Because if you do they will grow up to be murderous thugs. Surely this is self evident.

I imagine I'm in the camp of the do-gooders so I shall proffer an answer. No, I would not. I would be consumed with rage and would want payback, just like in the movies. However, I do not think that justice should be determined by the victim or even families of the victim. Justice needs to be objective, it can not have a personal stake. For example, I have friends who have been burgled, had a car vandalised or even been cut up on the motorway who, at that time, would have happily seen a death sentence imposed on the perpetrator. (in the last example it was me who wanted the T*at undertaking me on the M1 dead). It does not mean that burglars, vandals and bad drivers should be killed though does it?

Please define evil. I have a real problem understanding what is meant by this. I assure you I am not taking the p**s, I genuinely don't know what people are trying to say when they call something/one evil. I see the phrase thrown around in the tabloid press and it has connotations of the supernatural or the work of a devil which, as an atheist, I have a problem attaching any credibility to. It seems to have become popular shorthand for VERY VERY BAD. Is this what you mean when you say evil?

To clarify, the parts in bold were addressing previous posters who were advocating the execution of minors. I appreciate your polite rebuttal over withdrawing the Huntley remark. We can disagree on things without falling out. However, here's why I thought you should not have made that comparison. In poor taste, yes, but more so I think it's logically flawed. Vigilantism and vengeance have their roots in, an all be it flawed, sense of justice. They are all to often used to mask some very dodgy behavior but there is none the less at least an (at a push) understandable basis for the anger which spills into vengeance. It is not the same as perverted lust. The victim is also a reference point and in your post you run the risk of comparing the Soham girls to the Edlington boys. Whilst I can see error in the logic of any mob wanting to lynch the latter, I can also see there is a very big difference between these pairs of children.

Halibut I respect your posts but that is an ill-judged remark and a very poor comparison, I think it would do you credit to withdraw it. As for people calling for the execution of 10 year olds, you know you're wrong, just think for a minute. It isn't idiotic, soft or wishy-washy to think the boys who committed this vile crime are clearly themselves the product of massive cruelty and that no matter how revolting their acts, they should be given intensive psychological help, if they have to be kept in secure custody for 10 or 20 years until that process is completed then so be it.