Jump to content

shadow

Members
  • Content Count

    154
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by shadow

  1. I agree, which is really my point - a company isn't going to send a letter like this for fun, clearly something happened that made the agent wish to call in the contract terms. I really think there's more to this story than just agents panicking in the current climate and trying to scrape together any outstanding fees owed. 'Nightmare client' is IMO is usually the more likely explanation for a company playing hard ball like this - if the OP was such a client, I can see how any business would be looking to get back any owed money, as per agreed terms. IMO, if you read the original post, it really does sound like a classic breakdown of relationship between client and vendor. I've seen it myself and been on both sides in the past. I really cannot believe that a snotty letter would get sent out demanding that the price be dropped unless there had been some history of the client constantly refusing to drop the price. It really does sound like the agent has had enough of the client, not the housing market.
  2. The ELR contract doesn't state this though. It says that commission fees are payable upon completion (well, exchange of contracts). Any other fees incurred (e.g. newspaper ads, marketing set up costs, HIP) may also be collected at that time, but they reserve the right to bill for these out of pocket expenses after 12 weeks have passed. The key here is that they are trying to underline the fact that they are covering out of pocket expenses for you, but cannot do so indefinitely. Obviously the HIP will cost them something, newspaper ads cost something etc, and they are paying for these costs on your behalf - these costs are not dependant on the sale completing, that is made very clear in the contract. And if they feel you are getting in the way of making the sale (e.g. refusing to drop marketing price to a realistic value, not accepting reasonable offers, refusing to take viewings etc), then I can also see why they have that termination clause in place - if you have a client from hell on your hands, you would want a get-out clause and would also want to recoup your costs to date. I also see the flip side - it is concerning to sign an agreement where you agree to pay termination fees when the other party chooses to terminate, as in theory they could terminate on a whim and for no real reason. This is one reason why I refused to sign the ELR agreement. Really am playing devil's advocate here - but I feel the key is that the OP did accept the terms and with only one side of the story, it is not clear whether ELR are over-reacting or perhaps there's a bit more going on. It does seem a bit OTT for them to be sending threatening letters so quickly. If he is the client from hell (no offence to the OP, just speculating...), then that termination clause would IMO stand up perfectly well in court.
  3. Based on their reputation, estate agents are definitely one of the professions where you take everything they say with a pinch of salt! If it isn't in the contract, it is unlikely to happen, and if it is in the contract expect it to definitely happen. As you say, they've had it far too easy for too long, and now they are actually expected to graft hard for their bloated commissions, they are turning hard and nasty. The problem I found is that most agents were clearly over-valuing properties to get you to sign up - and in your case it's win-win for them as no matter what, they get some cash from you. £200 paper ad for space they would probably have bought anyway as they need to keep up a presence in the paper, £300 marketing fee for maybe 2 hours admin work, and an over-priced HIP @ £375 (the more honest going rate is around £220 inc VAT from Coates Solicitors). One thing you should look at with the ELR contract is that the one I saw contained a misleading error. The front page states it is a 'sole agency agreement', while the back page states it is a 'sole selling agreement'. These are two completely different types of agreement and hence perhaps a good lawyer could argue that the contract is null and void, as it's clearly been changed in a rush from sole agency to sole selling. The difference between the two types of agreement is that a sole selling one means if you decide sell to your mother, the agent still gets their commission. Sole agency just stops you using another agent to sell. Sole selling agreements were actually pretty much disregarded many years ago as they were considered unfair to consumers - however I don't think they are illegal.
  4. I am familiar with ELR's current Agency Agreement. The thing is it clearly states that you are liable to pay a marketing charge of around £300, you also pay for any newspaper ads you request at £200 per 1/4 page, and pay the HIP costs regardless of whether you have sold the house or not - payment is usually due once the sale is complete (not for HIPS unless deferred payment is requested, but this costs an extra £100), but they reserve the right to ask for payment after certain period has passed (12 weeks?). However in the event that they do sell the house, the marketing charge is usually dropped. Seriously, while I hate estate agents, these terms were very clear indeed when we were offered them - ELR's contract was IMO one of the clearest contracts we'd seen. We just chose to not accept those terms - ELR refused to negotiate so we chose a different agent. There's no law saying you have to put an ad in the paper, you could refuse this (best tell them your intentions before they agree to market you though). BTW, Bloor told me it costs him £750 for a full page ad in the Telegraph - I suspect that the true figure would definitely be in that region. Ultimately you agreed to their terms. While I don't agree that any agents' terms are particularly great, if you felt they were unfair you should never have agreed to them in the first place, as the contract does clearly state that they can recoup incurred costs after x weeks. I started a thread all about this a few months back, basically most agents are tightening up and coming out with harsh contracts. As the client you either agree, negotiate terms, or walk away and find someone else to market your house. The key with estate agents is to ask for a copy of their proposed terms and tell them you will call them after you've had time to consider.Then sit down and read the contract carefully and compare it to all the other contracts you have collected. Don't let them pressure you into signing up immediately. We chose Reeds Rains as they were no-sale-no-fee and had a very chilled contract - and even though it was a 12 week contract, they happily ripped it up after 6 weeks when it become clear no one was interested in our property. With your current agent I would suggest you arrange a face-to-face with them and explain to them how you feel about their aggressive nature and unnecessary threats of legal action. You might want to cut your losses though, and remember that the HIP is yours to keep and can be used with the next agent, so the charge is more like £500 or so. You may be better off with someone like housesimple.co.uk - that's the route we'll take next time as we feel high street agents do little to justify their fees.
  5. Supermarkets are rarely the cheapest when it comes to fresh food like fruit, veg and meat, but because they have so many bargains in other sections in the shop, people just get their fresh food there anyway. It's the supermarkets that promote the whole idea of a 'weekly shop' where you buy everything in one place. It's all about underhand tricks and slight of hand. Take a look at this week's 'half price' fruit and veg in Tescos - the 'pre-sale' price is simply heavily inflated than what would be the norm, typically by raising its price the week before. It's a loophole in the law as fresh food doesn't have to be sold for 28 days at the pre-sale price. So, a two-pack corn on the cob may sell for £1, they artificially raise the price to £2 for a week and then next week it's 'Half price' at £1. A green grocer probably sells corn on the cob at 30p each, but most people rarely check this, as all they can see is Tesco sells cases of Stella for pennies, so assume that all their offers are also just as great. Ever wondered why they always have cases of beer on really good offer as you walk through the doors at Tesco? Such a good offer is hard to pass up, so even if you only intended to get some milk, you are going to have to get a trolley - and with a trolley, heck, why not do a full shop while you are at it? I noticed Tesco petrol price is currently matching all local stations. No coincidence that they've now stopped the 'spend £50, get 5p off petrol' offer. A couple of weeks ago, the '5p off' offer stood, however that week their petrol was 4 or 5p more expensive than everyone else. Obvious tactic, but people still cant help themselves. I hate supermarkets and am embarassed that I used to shop exclusively in them for food. These days, we do the rounds; local shops, castle market, wholesale market (a few of us club together and we buy crates of fruit together).
  6. There's more to insurance than price - don't forget to check the policy details and read the small print. And be aware that low cost may mean low quality service should you ever make a claim. I'm currently finding that out the hard way (I won't bore you with the details).
  7. Western Road PO was on the local news this lunch time - there was an interview with a chap who didn't know what he would do as there was no post office anywhere near. I used to live in Crookes a few years back, and there was one approximately 5 minutes walk away at the corner of Crookes Road and School Road; is that already gone now?
  8. Fantastic place - we have a season ticket, we go once a week as the kids love it. We used to go to it years ago when it was really just the butterfly house, now it's a farm, playground, activities, animal interaction, the works - great value for money.
  9. Being half-greek myself, I thought I'd try various stuff from the Greek stall on Sunday. Very disappointed - the Olive bread was okay, but the spanakopita was all pastry and no filling. Same with the baklava, struggling to find any nuts, plus it was completely soggy, no crispy layers of filo. Rip off. There'a also another stall that sells baklava - they are selling those clear plastic plates of baklava for £6 when the exact same plates can be bought on Abbeydale Road for £3. From what I can tell, most of the stalls there are severely over-priced, there's no bargains to be had. Fargate smelt great though.
  10. Oh calm down and get a grip, I'm not talking about selling them to unsuspecting little old ladies here; I knew I'd get someone trolling on this. Please re-read my original post - I asked if there were any bonafide companies that specialise in dealing with fire damaged goods, i.e. to salvage spare parts unaffected by the smoke.
  11. A clause in a contract isn't necessarily 'legal' nor is it to be considered 'final with no contest' just because you agreed to it - there's plenty of cases where people have taken companies to court over unfair contract terms. Contracts still have to abide by the law of the land and also the rules of any relevent industry bodies - it just needs people to make the effort to pursue, which these days, very few people are willing to do. I'm sure if you pursued this you could eventually get some form of compensation, or at least satisfaction. But it'll probably be a long slog.
  12. Given up on both of them as they are too expensive - as someone mentioned, an extra £1 for one mushroom sliced up? The last one I had was Dominos and I foolishly ordered the thin crust expecting a 'stone baked' italian jobbie, instead got a greasy biscuit like base that was vile to say the least. Don't really eat pizza that much - best take aways for me are Kebab World in Broomhill, Noodle Love on Abbeydale Road, and Bilash on Sharrow Vale Road. Kebabish in Sharrow is pretty good if you specifically ask them not to overcook the meat, otherwise they just nuke it to oblivion.
  13. We recently had a fire in our kitchen and the cleaning company sent by the insurers has written off all the electric goods in the kitchen - three of them failed an electrical test (including a 10 month old £1000 Miele washing machine), while our fridge freezer was written off due for mild cosmetic reasons. While we are waiting for the replacements (could be a while), we've been told that we can still use all of them, as basically they all still work fine - we've just been told to unplug the washine machine between uses. While the insurers are happy to dispose of everything, we've also been told that if we wish, we can arrange for 'disposal' ourselves, as long as the plugs have been cut off and the 'warning - smoke damaged' stickers are left on. Obviously the first thought was 'can we (legally) sell these to anyone'? Perhaps specialist companies that deal with fire-damaged goods etc? It seems a shame to throw away a top quality washing machine when surely the non-electrical parts must be salvagable (or the damaged electrical parts just replaced). Is it illegal to sell fire damaged goods (assuming you make it clear to the buyer that they are fire damaged)? If not, anyone know of somewhere in Sheffield that may be interested?
  14. Of course we've informed the council - not just me, but many other I talk to. We also clean up as much as we can ourselves, but if anyone has any advice on how to get something more permanent done about this, I'd be happy to pursue this further.
  15. What type of scumbag breaks bottles and leaves all the glass scattered all over the floor of the kid's playground? Without fail, if I go to Mount Pleasant playground first thing on a Sunday morning with the kids we get the same thing - shards of glass everywhere, dog turds, half drunk beer cans dumped, half eaten KFC smeared into the roundabout seats and flem and saliva all over the floor and on the slides. This is in addition to people letting their pitballs chew all the swing seats to bits (literally an inch of rubber left on most of the swings) and the various profanities scribbled all over the climbing frame. A couple of weeks ago someone had put a dog turd at the top of the slide (I assume it was from a dog, but you never know). It's one thing people showing no respect for general public places, but this place is used only by small children. Why would anyone think this behaviour was a good idea? It makes me want to cry to think of what could happen to any kid falling on the glass or putting their hands in the dog mess accidentally. Is there no solution to this? Can they not mount CCTV on this place at night - it must be the same scum doing this week in and week out. Or at least have the council hire a warden to come round each morning to clean up?
  16. The market is dead, people are not buying and prices are dropping rapidly, so it's natural for the agents to start talking about dropping the marketing price. Much as I detest estate agents, if they really feel the marketing price is too high, it's unfair to expect them to put more time and money into marketing it just because you insist the price is right. If you don't want to drop the price, then take it off the market or find a new agent who'll market it at your preferred price (you may not find one though). If you signed an agency agreement with a £250 withdrawal fee, then you'll have to suck it up and pay; next time look for a no-sale-no-fee agent, or consider someone like housesimple.co.uk. Or sell it privately, that way you can completely dictate the selling price. TBH, if your house has been on the market for a long time, then obviously you should be dropping the price as in the past few months prices have dropped considerably.
  17. Last night we fancied some Oriental food and thought we'd try somewhere new for us (usually it's the fantastic Noodle Love). So I carried on down Abbeydale Road to Chan's, which is just past Tescos, next door to Majestic Wine. Very disappointed. Here's what we ordered: Starter: Jil Yen Ribs (£3.45) This is a salt/pepper/chili dish, with chopped ribs on a bed of onions. I shouldn't really use the plural 'ribs' as I suspect what we had was a single rib chopped into 8 pieces. While the flavour was very nice, I was struggling to find any actual meat on my bits of bone, mostly just skin. The entire dish itself was 95% onions. Main 1: Cantonese Sweet Chicken (£4.10) A vivid red dish with lightly battered chicken strips; heavy on the pineapple, minimal on the chicken. Flavour was good, but the chicken was monsterously overcooked, leaving it hard and gnarley. Main 2: Scallops with Ginger & Spring Onions (£6.80) A pricey takeaway dish, but I got this as a treat for my wife as I know she loves this when we go to resturants. Upon opening the container, I thought we'd be given the wrong dish; it looked like some kind of tofu and chicken concoction. However upon closer inspection, the yellowy-grey lumps did just about pass for scallop shape. Now personally I would expect the scallops to be juicy, plump and tender - no chance. Instead the best way to describe them was dry, tough and rubbery - it was like they'd been microwaved from frozen for a couple of hours. Absolutely shocking. Side - Large Fried Rice (£1.99) Bog standard fried rice, but again, clearly overcooked and very dry. It's not often I'd even consider taking food back to a takeaway. Last night however was one of those nights - luckily for Chan's it was late, I was tired and quite frankly I felt the environment could do without the extra trip in my car. Maybe I was just unlucky and the chef was having a bad day. But based on last night's experience, my advice is to avoid Chan's. Sorry for betraying you Noodle Love, see you on Friday.
  18. Completely agree. The art of estate agency has always been creating some kind of mystique around their job, suggesting a kind of elitist importance that doesn't really exist. They are really just fly-by-night-middle-men who make a few appointments, fiddle with some brochure software templates and pass on the odd bit of info when absolutely forced to. The last two agents we've used have made such a pigs ear of the brochure that we ended up providing our own photos and virtually rewriting the copy. It amazes me that something so fundamental to the marketing process is so rushed and 'boiler plate'. Laziness on the agent's part and a reflection of the fact that in the past few years properties have simply sold themselves with no need for any effort from the agents. Only if you sign a contract where you pay for the ads. Funny how they are happy to flood the Telegraph with their client's photos when the client is footing the bill. However, if ads are included in the commission, you suddenly find them far less eager to place ads in except for the first week it goes on the market. As a buyer, I've never experienced phone calls. We did sign up to all the agents' databases, but most of them have never sent us anything. Only Saxton Mee ever seem to bother and we wish they wouldn't, because we told them (three times now) that we are only interested in 4+ bedrooms, semi or detached, £450k+, and all we ever receive are 3 bed terraces for under £200k. As I've mentioned before, I do see some value to their service - getting on rightmove is a complete necessity and covieniently rightmove wont accept ads from private sellers. And assuming the agents have a good database that they are able to use correctly, that alone is gold dust. Beyond that, the value diminishes rapidly, it's all bluff made to pad out their bloated fees and in reality, it's all tasks you can do yourself with minimal fuss. The next house sale is either going completely private, or through someone like housesimple.co.uk.
  19. http://www.coatessolicitors.co.uk/coates.html £232 inc VAT - solicitors in Mosborough, can arrange it all on the phone. Our HIP was pukka.
  20. You missed my point. It is clear that agents feel that the measure of 'best' is who gets the most sold signs. However to the sellers, the 'best' agent is clearly the one who can get them the best price for their house in the fastest time with the minimum fuss and stress. Agents should try being a little more customer-focused, it would help them in the long term. TBH, it doesn't surprise me that an estate agent would consider his own internal sales targets over customer satisfaction and basically getting the best price for that client. Having the most 'sold' signs is meaningless if you got all those sales by severely undervaluing your client's homes. Correct, there is no argument from me, sole agency is fair enough, it's sole selling most have issue with. I was merely pointing out that your definition of sole agency was lacking full and important detail, and I simply cleared that up for other people who may be reading this thread. See my previous post, I can confirm that at least three agents in sheffield are using a sole selling agreement, including two of the leading ones.
  21. Clearly there is a massive distinction between charging high, transparent fees (usually because you are the elite in your profession) compared to bumping up your fees with hidden charges, unfair contract terms and overpriced add-ons sold through devious means. For an estate agent, being the 'best' is surely all about getting the best price for your clients and basically excelling at what you are paid to do by your client -the 'best' should be measured in relation to the client, not by how much money the agent screws out of their client, or the number of 'sold' signs they have. I know that ELR, Saxton Mee and Bloor do this (3 out of 5 that I met with). This is not always the case with sole agency - If I am contracted to agent A and, while contracted to A, I hire agent B and he sells my home, agent A can claim his full commission - it wouldn't matter who introduced the buyer, the vendor gets to pay two commissions. In addition, if my contract with agent A is long terminated and I eventually sell with agent B but the buyer was originally introduced to me by by A, agent A claims commission again. 'Sole selling rights' takes this further by agent A claiming commission should the vendor sell his house to anyone, even if the agent didn't introduce them (e.g. friend, relative etc). This is unfair - yes, if you've hired an agent and then sell to your mother the agent should get some compensation for their costs and time, but they do not deserve full commission on the sale, not when they had no part in that sale.
  22. You'll find consumers far more sympathetic when businesses carry out their dealing with honesty, trust and tranparency. I have seen very little of this in all my experiences with agents. The moment agents step through your door for the valuation/sales presentation, the lies start rolling out of their mouths. 'Housing crises? Dropping prices? Hard to sell? Nonsense, it's all scaremongering by the papers!'. 4 out of the 5 agents we recently spoke to insisted they would have no problem selling our house within 6 weeks - of course, none were willing to put their money where their mouth was. It is clear that the current market makes it hard to sell a property, but not many agents are willing to admit this. So instead they tell a pack of porkies and then vastly over-value your house - it's all about getting you to sign the contract and get the 'for sale' board up. On the subject of contracts, this is where the transparency should occur, yet this is where the agents convieniently shut up or use distraction tactics. Rather than go through their contract and explain the (very biased and harsh) terms, they do whatever they can to avoid this. Most consumers don't know the difference between sole selling and sole agency. There's withdrawal fees (even if the agent withdraws), no terms covering negligence on the agent's part, hidden charges, open-ended lock-ins, over-priced HIPS, admin fees, extra marketing charges, and definitely no terms in there to protect the customer. Is it any wonder people are weary of estate agents and unwilling to feel sympathy for their 'out of pocket expenses', when they have been lied to with unrealistic valuations, promises of quick sales and sneaky unfair contracts pushed on them? If the market conditions mean selling a property is virtually impossible, why don't the agents admit this, to the customers and themselves? It would save them losing out of pocket expenses and a lot of wasted time all round. I do feel that there is a place for a high street agent in the house selling process, but do feel that their pricing model need adjustment based on the actual services they offer (as per internet agents), their business practices need hard regulating, and generally they should begin to be a lot more honest and transparent in their dealings. Their service does have value - for example, without an agent you cannot get on rightmove, and they should have a database of potential buyers, but is that worth a whopping % of my house sale? And beyond that, what are they offering me that I cannot do myself with little effort (newpaper ads, appointment bookings, negotiating a final sale price, talking to solicitors etc)? Something needs to change - internet agents are definitely showing the way and its a welcome move.
  23. Not any more they don't. We recently interviewed five agents, only one offered it by default. None of the others were willing to consider it. Yes,of course they'll negotiate some aspects of the agreement - that's not hard IMO considering the terms they begin with are far so outrageous in the first place. I negotiate contract terms frequently for my company, and I've never seen such poor terms as those offered by estate agents - and even with my experience in negotiation, I found it impossible to get most of the agents to budge beyond cursory adjustments. Many of them have obviously changed their contracts in a bit of a rush since the market took a downturn. For example, the back of ELR's terms are a 'sole selling rights' agreement, yet the front page of the contract clearly states it is a 'sole agency' agreement - confusing for the customer and most likely illegal. And 3 out of the 5 agents we interviewed charge a £50 'admin' fee if you do this, plus tried to insinuate that by going elsewhere you were effectively buying a worthless HIP that would need to be carried out again. It is clear to me that agents do little to justify their fees, especailly when their fees are a percentage of the house sale (a low fixed fee would be more appropriate). The work they carry out is mostly clerical and administrative - answering phones, making appointments, grabbing feedback etc. Their 'sales' techniques are non-existant; 'marketing' a property is a by-the-numbers routine of whacking it up on right move, sticking a brouchre in the window of their offices and infrequently putting it in the Telegraph (which you'll pay £250 for in most cases). Would be nice if they thought outside the box a little - more active, less passive. And calling themselves 'negotiators'? Don't make me laugh.
  24. My experience of agents has generally been poor - struggle to see how they can justify the fees they charge. Valuations seem guesswork or orchestrated to sucker the vendor into signing up (or not signing up as mentioned already in this thread), sales brochures are copy/paste templates sputing the same old rubbish 'an early viewing is essential...', 'a rare opportunity has...', rarely take a good photo, spend most of their time making phone appointments and usually can't get that right, their contracts are shocking (sole selling rights in most cases these days, high withdrawal fees etc), they charge outrageous mark ups on HIPS, other hidden charges, the list goes on.
  25. You'll find it very hard to sell in the current market, plus even harder to find a property to buy in my experience so far. We've been on the market for a few weeks now and have had only 3 viewings, two of which were from people who had not even put their house on the market yet - these all happened the weekend we went on the market, since then nothing apart from 5 no-shows (how rude!). We have a fantastic house, and have priced it fairly, but there simply is nothing happening at the moment. From a buyers perspective, three months ago there seemed to be a fair few houses coming on the market that we may have been interested in (S11 or S7; 4-5 bed victorian/Edwardian semi or detached with decent size garden), but now there really is nothing. What is available (in this segment) is very overpriced IMO - Blundells seem to be the worse culprits here. The randomness of the valuations between agents is distrubing - We were looking at a lovely (but small) property in Kenwood @ £450k (blundells) - but we realised it was overpriced so lost interest, and later discovered both ELR and Saxton Mee had valued it at £385k. The agents seem scared, as do buyers and vendors. We're going to pull the house off the market next week because it no longer feel right to move forward with this. Anyway, our agents have suddenly started talking about 'taking any offer' that we may get, which doesn't particular fill me with confidence over their 'negotiation' skills. Rather stay put and put up with a small garden!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.