MobileB

Thats an even bigger reason to vote leave!

Let me guess, public sector? They have to have hand in honey jar somehow.

Actually all were private sector in this instance.

Found this too. Leave is business, older voters, one policy party voters, the hard right & A few dissilusioned left leaners.

 

Remainers fall into a few categories.

 

Young voters.

Lefties.

Neo liberals

Ex pats, worried about having to buy a visa or having pensions slashed.

Oh and big business like ryanair that rely on euro lobbying & low wage workforce

Ryanair cabin crew starting wage is £18000 per year. Pilots starting wage is £60000 a year. They are the lowest in the airline industry - there are plenty earn less than this.

Watched the video,that's 3 minutes of my life I will not get back. Done the quiz I never said I was perfect, everybody has bias and bigotry, even you mobile.

I get your point about the British benefit scum, there are plenty of jobs out there and nobody should get benefits unless they are disabled in some way or there is no job for them to do. Somewhere along the line they or their family or even ancestors will have paid into the system, the European immigrants just come here and take straight away with NOBODY having ever paid into the system. It would soon stop if we could claim it back from their home govts like we are suppose to with healthcare.

Where is it written that I, my wife and my 3 sons, none of which are entitled to housing or any type of benefit, that all work and pay taxes owe a living to the scum of Europe when we have enough people in this country going without.

Yes I know blame govt cuts/austerity but if the eu migrants were,nt here taking from the system there would be more to go round and less cuts/austerity.

If Migrants took out of the system more than they put in, I would agree with you. But just 2.2% of EU migrants claim any sort of welfare benefit, significantly lower than British Citizens.

When in-work benefits are taken into account then it increases to around 10% - which is inline with British citizens. The Government tried to do away with many in-work benefits recently, particularly working tax credits, but had to U-turn.

I was at meeting the other day of 68 HR professionals (including some payroll professionals) which had a ballot (a bit for fun) as to remain to leave. It was 68-0 for remain.

The point is we can democratically elect a new guv very 4 or 5 years.

It's every five years since the UK Government changed the Law in 2010.

Take a look at the final clause of the actual act of Parliament that gave us entry into the European Union (or EEC as it was called then) and your sovereignty issue is about what we can do is there.

I seem to have been labelled as a racist xenophobe, fine not a problem I have been called worse and it worries me not, but just to clarify a few points.

 

I prefer to call myself a nationalist eurosceptic. By nationalist I support the well being of every Brit be they white Brit, Asian Brit or black Brit of whatever faith, gender or sexual persuasion. I do not think that any of these Brits should be supporting, through benefits, the scum of Europe that come here just to rip the arse out if the system. I have some admiration for Putin as he does what he deems best for Russians and their country, they must like him they keep voting him in allegedly.

 

So they should be supporting the British "benefit scum" instead?

I think you really need to take a look at this. Take the quiz - be totally honest with yourself - and see what your result is.

http://lovehasnolabels.com/

I thought I would be voting with remain, but now think I will be voting for Brexit. I was concerned about employment rights but have come to realise that there is little or no protection anyway if you are on a zero hour contract; as many people are. I am also concerned about the burden of migration on the NHS and other organisations and housing will continue to be in short supply and rents get ever more expensive as new migrants move further north out of London to save on housing benefit.

Zero Hour contracts are absolutely nothing to do with the EU. They were invented in the UK and only came of prevalence when the UK clamped down on the black jobs market in the 90s. Other European countries have followed with their use.

Zero hour contracts are great for, for instance, the hospitality industry, where coverage can be given to weddings and other events. Where there were an issue was where some companies (there was one large sports retail provider who received particular publicity) inserted exclusivity clauses meaning that you were not allowed to work for anyone else, irrespective of the number of hours you were given. These clauses were outlawed by the Government at the beginning of this year.

Your employment rights are identical if you are on a zero hour contract or any other sort of Contract of Employment. Your protected rights only come into effect after two years service, something that was changed by the coalition Government not the EU.

I think it may be worth reading the EU referendum thread - there is lots of explanation on there as to why leaving the EU will have little impact on immigration - indeed it could possibly be made worse.

I'm content to await the outcome of negotiations after a Brexit if it happens, then to rub your nose in it. Hard

No, I'm saying that what little economic planning the thinking Brexit side (that economics professor) have put forward, will irremediably result in the exact same situation across all sectors of the UK economy opened to direct and unfettered competition from developing economies.

 

Our minimum wage does not compete with some of the least developed EU member states: there is no minimum wage in the BRICs, and by now they're just as developed as the UK, particularly in the knowledge sectors - and with a better infrastructure and work ethic (culture) than the EU member states with a lower minimum wage.

 

You can bask in your reclaimed sovereignty when you have to send your kids back down the coal pits again

Will it mean we can also send them up chimneys again as well?

 

Bold, I agree, and would go further and say we've seen nothing yet!

 

In the near future the only people willing to put themselves forward to be a politician will be a few clever but very unpopular people (as is now on either side); and the rest will be the equivalent of today's Katie Hopkins Vs Kim Kardashian's left buttock type material.

 

After watching SoccerAid match earlier it wouldn't surprise me if one of Onedirection ends up being PM one day.

I can imagine Panzers reaction if Zayn was running for PM.........

Be surprised how many of us are bothered about immigration. Not all that bothered about the economy, realise there are risks but we will weather them. Its an added reason, the main one is I do not like being told what to do by some one I cannot elect or fire. Junker unelected, sorry his name was only one on the ballot paper so I suppose you can say he was elected if you like, I don,t.

 

I am British and want to be governed by elected British MPs

I make you one guarantee. People are bothered about the money in their pockets. Immigration suddenly slips down the importance list when it comes to their own pocket. You will keep the same and immigration will go down - guaranteed a majority. You will lose a tenner a week OR immigration goes down - guaranteed the tenner will win a massive majority. Every vote we have ever had in the past 100 years.

---------- Post added 06-06-2016 at 19:55 ----------

I'm not getting the argument that we need to stay in the single market because without it we wouldn't create new jobs, what do we need to create new jobs for when apparently we need immigrants to do these new jobs?

You applying?:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/farming-veterinary-jobs/agricultural-machinery-operator/1170609925

I say as I see, travel through page hall enough, big fat Roma in gangs on the streets all time of day and night turning the area in to a sh@t hole. Would they be here if not for the benefits and free movement....no.

When you are next travelling take a trip through Meadows in Nottingham (keep your windows up and doors locked). A fine example of how the British live.

But would we still have to give the scum of Europe benefits, if not then I think you may be surprised to find numbers will drop. Or we can legislate to say come if you want but no benefits until you have been here 5 years paying in.

But if not and your liblabcon MP votes against your wishes then UKIP will campaign on that ticket that you cannot trust your MP to represent you and they would be right, people do not like being taken for fools, so could see the rise of UKIP rather than their demise.

What a fantastic post. "the scum of Europe benefits". Nothing like us and them eh.

The Brexit Conservative MPs will not support this and there are more than enough of them to bring down the government.

The government would win the vote on this matter as they'd have the support of opposition MPs, but the Brexit MPs would not forgive them and the government would fall not long afterwards.

But not enough of them if the other parties vote in favour. Remember 76% of MPs support remain.

Easy hire and fire would make a big difference. As would minimising the taxes and paperwork associated with employing somebody. There are of course down sides to this for the workforce. Sometimes employability runs against job security.

 

There are 2 general approaches to increasing employment.

The "left" tend to create work, by employing people in the public sector. The EU being against nationalisation (pro privatisation) make this very difficult.

The "right" tend to deregulate to make businesses more efficient and grow the private sector. The EU make this extremely difficult.

 

Being outside the Eurozone, we get get away with a little bit more of the "right" approach and as a result we've seen a drop in employment since 2010.

I think that if we stay in the EU, and you manage to get Corbyn or somebody similar into office at No. 10; you'll be extremely disappointed by how little gets done from your shared ideology.

But easy hire and fire it is now. Was changed only a few years ago that meant people had to work two years before they had protected rights. Simply, if under two years service all companies have to do if pay contractual notice (which legally is one week until you reach two years service anyway).

Or are you saying that companies should just be able to fire irrespective of service? Don't think you would get much support for that.

Repealing some laws would probably help more.

Such as? Specific examples? I may agree with some but be good to hear.

I suggest that those who like EU labour laws, don't vote for a party who proposes to remove them. Those who dislike those laws can vote the other way.

Vox populi vox Dei.

 

By the way. From the context, I think you have qualitative and quantitative mixed up.

I don't think any Government would remove based rights (such as holidays etc.) but I doubt many will be as forthcoming in introducing new rights. It took from 1936 ish to 1978 to increase it so that we actually were allowed 8 days holiday instead of 7 on the statue. It was the EWD that took that up to 20 days in 1997 - both Conservative and Labour Governments opposed this (and a subsequent Labour Government took it to 28 days which is more than the EWD).

There would have been issues, for in stance with the recent Bear Lock cases if we were not in the EU. These were EU directives that have given additional worker rights (although the UK Government did implement legislation to lessen the impact for UK workers).

You clearly implied it in the below:

How else am I to understand the above argument?

 

As an admission that there is indeed a need for wage parity when countries make the same things and provide the same services as other countries?

I have not. Free trade can work perfectly fine when there is a large difference in wages and no tariffs. Look at UK steel recently

The average wage in Bulgaria is €333 per month whilst in Sweden it is €2690 per month.

The average pint of beer in Bulgaria is €0.91 whilst in Sweden it is €5.90.

By my calculation the pint in Bulgraria relatively speaking is 0.8% more expensive than in Sweden.

Not sure what the relevance is (other than Swedes could get very drunk very cheaply in Bulgaria).

*Luxembourg has the highest average wage in the EU at €3,198 per month but I couldn't find the average price of a pint in Luxembourg so they were excluded due to their inability to compete fairly.

The Eurozone has a single base interest rate as it has a central bank.

So if it all comes down to interest rates, why does the 10 year bond yield vary from 0.1% in Germany, through 0.5% in France, to 3% in Portugal and 7% in Greece?

 

The matter of free trade agreements is indeed complicated. The US recently negotiated an agreement with Australia which took 3 years and involved no free movement and none of the nonsense of TTIP.

The EU has been working on a free trade agreement with the US for decades.

There are 3 key points I take away from this.

Negotiating free trade agreements does not have to take forever if you're not the EU, so I don't see why an independent UK can't make such agreements.

The EU does not automatically require free movement for free trade.

The EU is not going to sacrifice their trade surplus with the UK to protect the principle of free movement when they've already shown that they will accept free trade agreements without that provision.

You miss the bit about none of the other trade agreements you mention being with countries that effectively border the EU. The bordering countries that do have such agreements - Norway, Iceland, Switzerland - are also required to have free movement. Bit of an important point.

It's the insinuation, not words.

The insuation being that if you are inside a room negotiating, you will get a better deal than being outside the room. Obviously don't use conference calls or WebEx's these EU leaders do they.

Merkel is a bully. She just makes me want to do everything in my power to bring down the eu!

I know she is right bully. I felt so threatened that I curled up and cried for half the evening when she said "‘You will never get a really good result in negotiations, particularly on very important issues, when you’re not in the room and giving input.’

I think I might let my point die because no-one seems to get it and I don't want to flood the thread..

 

One last go:

 

Lots of companies might leave the UK if we Brexit. They will relocate back in the EU.

 

Does anyone know of one company that will leave the EU to move to the UK if we Brexit? Even if it's as small as Giuseppe The Toffee Hammer Maker in Rome that sells 100% of his products to Derby Toffees and Treats.

 

I just want a flipside to all the companies that will leave.

Good question. I'm sure some Brexiter will be along shortly to let you know I think I have made my case for the companies that are considering leaving

I believe you don't worry. I just wonder how many and if they will be welcomed, wrt which staff they want hire/bring along etc.

 

Coming to the Brexited UK to avoid EU red tape seems odd. Why not trade from anywhere else but the EU now if it's such a hassle? If their main market is the EU it still will be post-Brexit, and still with all the red tape, maybe more because the EU will still have its demands.

 

If their main market is the UK and they relocate to the UK post Brexit to avoid EU hassle then fair play, good luck. Which company are you though?

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2016 at 19:44 ----------

 

 

Yes, never in doubt! Not enough for me.

Remember a lot of companies trade from London because the current financial services set up across the EU makes it easy for them to do so. I'm talking about, for instance, the big insurance companies that deal in commercials such as shipping and aviation (not the retail side which is tiny in comparison). Movement of capital is easy (even between the pound and the euro). Suddenly when barriers are in place it is not the same. And if you are a company providing support and back office service, for instance, you will need to go where the trade is. At the moment you can do that for the all of Europe from the UK. Out and you can't. And Europe is a big market! That doesn't mean you cannot keep the company base in the UK, but you need to do your trading within the EU. The Service sector accounts for about 78% of our GDP and London is the biggest financial market in the World.

Appreciate I am speaking to the converted with that!

---------- Post added 02-06-2016 at 20:03 ----------

The 2008 crash saw UK GDP drop by several percent over 5 quarters.

Have there been any credible predictions that we're risking anything comparable?

I think the economy is roughly 7% larger than it was before 2008 crash. In reality, it should be at least triple this. I have struggled to find credible economist that has said there won't a contraction.

Surely this is a selection of companies "considering" their position in the event of Brexit.

I appreciate that there will be upheaval. I never said otherwise.

 

Will anybody concede on the remain side that there will also be gains?

I don't think anyone on the remain side has ever said the EU is perfect. It is not. There are advantages and there are disadvantages. To many, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. The biggest problem is coming out is a risk, a big risk, and many of us do not think it is a risk worth paying. For all the problems with immigration, the damage that could be done to the economy, and with it our childrens future, could be far worse. We are 8 years since the last crash and we have still not recovered. How long could this one take?

The Brexit campaign win on immigration and always will. Their arguments are generally solid although the strategy after leaving does not make sense and would not work. Just because it works in a country of 23 million with no near neighbours to compete against does not mean it will work in a country with 70 million and a competitive market less than 25 miles from our shores.

However, I have seen no viable alternative for trade and the economy that will still not involve the free movement of people and therefore in or out, the immigration issue will not be solved and therefore we have to be better in.

Not quite, I'm just wanting examples of companies that will specifically move to the UK post Brexit as a direct result of Brexit. I did my bit: a specific survey about companies planning to relocate from the UK if there is Brexit.

 

L00b is a man? Thought he was a woman for some reason. Sorry L00b!!

I would be very surprised if any company would get involved this. The PR involved if they remain won would make things difficult. However, I do know some are making plans (just to reiterate not the company I work for!).

Ok....can you guarantee they will be allowed to set up here though, post Brexit?

 

Will they want to rehire all their staff in the UK or demand we take their current workforce? What if we refuse because they don't match out immigration criteria?

 

I think it's fair to say, at the moment it is not easy to move business from one country to another in the EU where existing staff are in place carrying out a contract. Daft as what that sounds, TUPE does apply across EU. Therefore if your company in Sheffield decided to move to the south of France, if you fancied it you could move on existing conditions within employment Law in France. Remember, it is where the work is located not the company so your company could be working in Sheffield but based in the Bahamas. TUPE would apply.

However, once out of the EU, they are no longer bound by TUPE for inter-country moves so they could move your work to, say, Poland, where the labour costs would be cheaper and the movement of capital, because it is within the EU and the work involves the EU, easier. All they would need to do is make you redundant and start up the business in Poland. You will get 45 days consultation, notice and redundancy pay (which will invariably be statutory amounts). No protected right because your job has gone to Poland.

Think that makes sense. TUPE is very complicated - believe me I work with it virtually every day!

Go on then, then it's one all. Which company will leave the EU to set up in the UK? Will they be allowed to, by us, post Brexit? What if the CEO doesn't have enough immigration points?

Withdrawn what I put. If you saw it whilst it was there that is ok. There are reasons.