Titanic99

Theresa May will go down in History as the Prime Minister who changed her mind more than any other and it got a few of us blokes chatting at work today as to whether or not this was a Female thing. Our current boss is a woman and she’s so guilty of changing her mind that we now refer to her as Theresa (not to her face though) so we then started thinking about our other bosses and our wifes and partners and we came to the following conclusions: Male bosses tend to plan things better, but also are more stubborn and reluctant to change when things aren’t going well. Female bosses (and wifes) tend to rely more on instinct and are happy to change things around if they aren’t to their satisfaction. I know this is a huge generalisation and it isn’t sexist as there’s a need for both. Personally I’m better at planning things and hopeless at multi-tasking, just wondered if there are other Theresas out there and whether or not this is a good thing.

I saw a report on the news saying Kensington Council should be prosecuted, I would suggest any Council not making changes within the next 12 months should be prosecuted instead. You can't have a clearer warning to do something than this so get it done.

This is similar to what I think and the reason for the thread. I'm proud of the Police and Firefighters in London and Manchester but not of the decision to reduce their numbers so substantially. I could and have listed many other examples of this, it just feels people aren't as Proud as they were 20 years ago.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be, what I do think is worth discussing is whether or not this Pride diminishes as a consequence of events and/or what aspects still cause you immense Pride

Good point I used British as the Parliament and Armed Forces are British but the same question could be applied to those proud to be English ---------- Post added 19-06-2017 at 19:48 ---------- Northern Ireland

I don't know how you can be to be honest. I'm happy to concede you can be proud of your country's achievements though.

I'm interested to know if there's a point in which you'd no longer say that and what would drive you over the edge. When I came to England in 1979 I thought we were a great country but not anymore. I'm ashamed over the recent attacks on both sides, I'm embarrassed by this and the previous governments non action on fire safety and I'm staggered our government are being propped up by a terrorist supporting political party. ---------- Post added 19-06-2017 at 19:33 ---------- What are you proud about these days?

Over the years lots of people have been rightly proud to be British and of the type of values we held. We have a decent democracy, we introduced the NHS and Welfare State and most have been tolerant of other peoples religions and cultures. But now is this still the case, I seem to wake up to some atrocity or disaster of our own making. Just look at this lot and tell me that you are proud of what’s happened to this country: • Illegal wars based on “dodgy” dossiers • People on Benefit demonised by the mainstream media leading to the cutting of payments to these poor people • Home-grown terrorists targeting schoolchildren • Home-grown terrorists targeting tourists and people enjoying a drink or meal • Home-grown terrorists attacking people coming out of prayer • People getting burned alive as a consequence of successive governments failing to take safety seriously • The current Government joining up with a terrorist/extremist political party in order to stay in power • Muslim people are subjected daily to racial abuse • Abuse of children across the country I’m sure others can add to this list, my personal view is I’m sick of this and we need to start to get back to previous values where we cared more about people and less about profit. People can legitimately say if you don’t like it go and live somewhere else but even that is under threat as 52% of people voted to prevent the free movement around Europe. So is there anyone left still proud to be British and if so could I ask why?

Most of us have some sort of order/routine at work for tasks that need completing, but I don’t think I can ever recall one more challenging than the Prime Ministers. Irrespective of who you voted for, would you fancy trying to sort this lot out: • Brexit- European Countries are chomping at the bit to get these discussions going, whereas we need to decide what sort of Brexit we want, what we’ll accept as a minimum and what are areas that there is absolutely no compromise on. To make matters worse the message from the electorate is very mixed • Queens speech- This tells us what’s going through Parliament so given the current predicament it’s likely to bare very little resemblance to what was in the manifesto, so what goes in and what comes out and how do you manage the fallout from this from those who voted to bring back Foxhunting and so on • Economy- Most people recognise balancing the books is proving more difficult than first thought with austerity not providing the expected outcomes and the Chancellor has previously indicated he needs to raise taxes in order to do this. The Prime Minister consequently has to decide whether or not to change strategy and risk upsetting large swathes of her own supporters, or to carry on with something not working • Forming a Government- The expected arrangement with the DUP presents so many problems that need resolving: The Public reaction to having them influencing Government, what they require from the DWP and how that will be policed, what the DUP require from them and if this is in the form of finances as expected what they’ll be allowed to spend this on and in which areas of Northern Ireland this can be spent (good luck with that one), the Good Friday peace agreement and relations with Nationalists and the Irish Government • Internal discipline within the Conservative party- Not normally a major issue but given the wafer thin majority this is critical to her now if she is to avoid another Election I haven’t intended this as an Anti May thread (enough of them exist anyway) and with the exception of the dig on Foxhunting (I really don’t get people voting for this to come back) I’ve avoided this. This situation would have been relevant to whoever won last week, I’d suggest that it’s impossible to give all of these major issues the attention they fully deserve (possible exception of Brexit as there’s 2 years to get this in) and what worries me is that it’s going to be easy to make big errors that we’ll all suffer for later. To put this into perspective at my place of work when we implement a new computer system we have many meetings, employ a Project Manager and test the options available before deciding on the one we want (usually 6 months to a year later). The PM has literally days to negotiate a deal with the DWP, to decide on what polices need ditching, decide on a Brexit strategy post Election, decide on an Economic strategy and keep discipline within her own party. On top of that all of the other aspects of Government. Whether or not she’s up to the job we’ll all have her own opinions, but good luck to her with this.

Oh dear someone isn't happy. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to give us all a list of things we can talk about. ---------- Post added 12-06-2017 at 13:40 ---------- Yep grew up in North Belfast with Ian Paisley as MP and he was barking mad and almost certainly linked to terrorists. I wonder if our impartial media will be pointing this out over the coming months

The result of the Election has left us with a mess in the Governance of the country and a Party clinging onto power with the support of a Terrorist Sympathising ultra Right-Wing party in Ulster. Whilst I recognise that the Conservatives were the biggest party (In terms of votes and seats) and fully support their right to attempt to form the next Government I don’t believe this should be with the current P.M in charge and here’s my 10 reasons for saying this (feel free to add others). 1. Calling of the Election- After repeatedly saying she wouldn’t call one she (co-incidentally when it matched an over 20 point lead in polls) following a walk in the Welsh hillside decided to call one when she had a perfectly workable majority. 2. An opponent who was loathed by huge numbers of people- She was taking on an opponent who had the lowest competency ratings amongst the Electorate that I can call 3. An opponent who was not supported by his own Party- His own MP’s had no confidence in him and who have been very lukewarm in the support of him during this campaign 4. Dianne Abbot- She was handed on a plate two huge gaffes from the Shadow Home Secretary from which I couldn’t see Labour coming back 5. Refusal to take part in a debate- A huge own goal by not taking part in this. I fail to see how performing and doing badly can be any worse than refusing to take part so just do it and fight your corner 6. Support from the media- Walking past newspaper stands on Election Day it was almost all persuading you to vote for her and Sky News coverage was a disgrace with more air time being given to her visiting empty farmhouses than Corbyns rallies in front of thousands 7. Huge funding from businesses- Rumour has it that she had 10 times as much to spend on her campaign than Labour 8. Losing a 20-25 point Opinion Poll lead- I can’t recall a Party ever leading by that much in polls, let alone nearly losing it all in 6-7 weeks 9. Her Campaign strategy- She just didn’t clink with the Electorate, she seemed uncomfortable in front of the cameras, big crowds and meeting people 10. Her policies- Her idea to re-introduce Fox Hunting appalled lots of people and the idea to introduce the “Dementia Tax” naffed off a lot of her own supporters In my eyes all of the above were either errors of her own making, or the provision of opportunities given to her to assist in getting the huge majority she craved and she has just failed miserably. The consequence of the above has now resulted in the current chaos and with a Prime Minister having to rely on the support of a Terrorist Sympathising, Ant-Gay, Anti-Gay and Creationist Party to continue governing and she should do the decent thing and resign. Some will say legitimately what/who would replace her and that’s down to the Tory party. I see two options more preferable than this: The first is someone else within the Party who has got the leadership qualities needed for Governing and Brexit. The other is some form of Government of National Unity for 2 years to get Brexit sorted before going to the Polls again.

Perhaps they are locked away together, Abbot is catching up on all the reports she hasn't read and Rudd on all the people they should be watching but aren't.

I watched Sky News last night between 9-10 expecting the same air time for both of the main partied. What I got was: 5 minutes of May visiting a farm with 1 person there, then addressing a meeting of around 50 activists in stoke and then a meeting in Cheltenham. They then went to a re-run of Dianne Abbots nightmare interview from the day before. During the hour long session there wasn't one glimpse of Corbyn and/or of the huge rally he addressed along with various celebrities. Democracy in this country stinks sometimes.

Anyone else wondering where Amber Rudd has been over the last few days. As Home Secretary she’s responsible for our security and given the 3 recent horrific attacks wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that she should be addressing the nation with details of why these attacks got through and what she intends doing to prevent future ones. It kind of feels like she’s locked in a cupboard somewhere with the Chancellor and Health Secretary. Dianne Abbot got rightly slaughtered for her performance the other day, but where is the Home secretary?

Off topic (slightly) I saw an interesting statistic last night that said the country with the highest home ownership in Europe was Bulgaria with 97%. I know this was an old communist country but I'd be intrigued to know how they got to that level i.e did they give the houses away (it would stop landlords making millions)

Sorry I’m confused! Are you saying it’s Mays fault debt has gone from 1 Trillion to 1.8 as that’s a bit harsh as Cameron was in charge for most of that time.

I've attached links to the Telegraph and Independent both of which carry the same story. One of these portrays it in a positive light and the other in a negative one. For the record I think the Independent is the more accurate but it just goes to show how newspapers can distort facts and why the Tories will probably win a comfortable majority again. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-land-value-tax-manifesto-general-election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-a7738766.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/29/tax-homes-treble-labour-plans-land-value-tax/

Let’s for one moment turn this around and assume that Jeremy Corbyn has been Home Secretary for 6 years and in that time he has: • Slashed 20,000 poice jobs • Slashed UK Border Agency budget so 1 million people go through borders without being checked • Then there’s a home-grown terrorist attack in a city where the Police budget was cut by £157 million • He’s lost files on an internal paedophile ring • He wants to take homes from the elderly • He’s cut 30% of your disabled benefit • He’s signed an arms dealing with the ISIS funding Saudi government • He wants to take away Free School meals • He’s forced nurses into using food banks • He’s increased waiting times at A and E • He wants to re-introduce Foxhunting • Let’s say after all of the above there’s still a deficit with targets being missed and debt has spiralled What would you say about Jeremy Corbyn after the above, and maybe the British public aren’t so stupid after all hence why her ratings are plummeting. Still she’s always got the Tory press to call upon nearer the day.

I’d declare it a draw, I thought Corbyn was better with the audience and May with Paxman. I do find Corbyns style very refreshing, he doesn’t duck difficult questions and the only time I saw him struggling was with the Nationalisation of Banks question (he didn’t seem prepared for that). The two examples to compare both of them were when he got questioned by the small businessman and her by the Pensioner over the care policy. Both these directly affected the individuals to their detriment, Corbyn answered by telling the questioner what he was doing with the extra taxes and made a good job of making the guy feel bad. On the other hand May didn’t answer directly the reasons for the care policy and she’d have been better just asking the Pensioner who he thought should pay for the care. She’ll win but her campaign has been terrible and hopefully he’ll be given more time to get labour elected.

Clearly I didn't explain myself well enough for you so let me try again. Conservative manifesto commits to providing Social Care at point of need, but to retrospectively charge for this from the estate of the person after their death with the proviso of leaving £100k in the estate. 2 people person A and B both need 75k worth of care. Person A saw their estate go up in vale from £50k I'm 1997 to £175k in 2010 and therefore they would pay £75k to the taxman from the estate. Person B saw their estate go up at the levels when the Tories were in power and they only have £90k in the estate so the Taxman gets nothing and the care is still needed. Hopefully that isn't too difficult to understand but put simply the Taxman is better off when the value of the estate increases and this is obviously when Labour were in power ---------- Post added 29-05-2017 at 16:15 ---------- There's 2 sides to this, the first is the 1 Trillion debt left behing (now 1.8 Trillion) and the second is the value of the assets left behind. If the assets have gone up and any government can tap into them then the first of these is nowhere near as bad as first thought

I have to laugh at the irony of the Tories on this one. They've spent 7 years telling us that Labour left them no money, now when they can't balance the books they are tapping into the money people made under Labour from the great property boom. Average house prices from This is Money website 1980£24k 1997 Labour came to power £78k 2010 Tories came to power £209k Unless I'm mistaken people seemed to make a lot of money under Labour and the Tories want to a big chunk of it back from them.

Cardiff good value at 33/1. Warnock in charge and some money to spend apparently, plus they finished the season well.

I’ve been watching football for nearly 50 years and during this time you develop affinity towards some teams and dislike for others. Growing up in Belfast the big two were Linfield and Glentoran and given I lived 50 yards from glentorans ground I followed them all over the country (small that it is). You also had to have allegiance to either Rangers or Celtic and mine was to the former. I then moved to Sheffield and followed my dads lead in following Wednesday as opposed to the other third of the city. The Premier league comes along and my preference is towards the Northern clubs with a specific dislike to Chelsea (throwback to the 80’s and their supporters). We then see the wonderful played by Barcelona with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta and my Spanish allegiance is to them when La Liga is screened at the weekend. So here we are at the end of the season: • Chelsea are champions of the Premier • Celtic are unbeaten in Scotland • Linfield do the double in Belfast with an ex Glenman banging a hat-trick in the Cup Final • Wednesday blow the play-offs • United get 100 points and walk away with their league • Real Madrid will win La Liga and probably the Champions League as well • To top it all my lads Junior Football team gets relegated. Has anyone ever had a worse season than this?

My only hope is we have a go at them and if we go out it's not with a whimper as it felt like sunday. If we sit back and let them have the ball and lose Carlos is a goner!

I don't want him to leave, the football played last season was some of the best in my time watching Wednesday.