Organgrinder

THEY USED TO BE. I don't think that a single one of the, almost 1000, sub-postmasters / mistresses, who were robbed of hundreds of thousands of pounds, and those who lost their homes and jobs, and those who served prison sentences would agree with you there.

I don't think that a single one of the, almost 1000, sub-postmasters / mistresses, who were robbed of hundreds of thousands of pounds, and those who lost their homes and jobs, and those who served prison sentences would agree with you there.

You can talk about whatever you please - Others can also do the same without worrying about your opinion.

I think the word successful is an overstatement for someone who was the CEO and then Chair of Fujitsu between 2014 and 2018. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised when you consider the chief clown to have been a successful PM too. Thanks Axe - keep the laughs coming.

Never come across any anti-Semitics on this forum although there are some like me who think the Israeli government should be be jailed for the mistakes they have made. That means you're wrong again cuttsie. I've never known one man be so wrong on so many things until I came across you. She is a disgrace to humanity and I can't think of any group of people which would agree with what she says. Glad you're holding on the the tin hat though I don't know what it's ever going to protect.

I understand that America has been at war for all but 16 years of it's entire history, but that's not what we were discussing, and not the subject of the thread. My bold: Glad you've finally got it right at last. Very strange co-incidence because I always think you talk ****e too Glad you've finally seen the sense anyway.

I never blamed anyone. I said where were the yanks ? and unfortunately, you got annoyed because you couldn't answer. I'm not interested in what you think of me - I still prefer peace to war.

Nobody ever said that John Lennon was a peace loving saint. I said that "I don't believe in unnecessary wars - John Lennon was right" and I quoted his saying "Give peace a chance"

I can see you're a Morecambe & Wise fan but you got it the wrong way round - It's right notes in wrong order. Wonder if you can tell me where the Yanks were in 1939 - 1940 and 1941. It took them a long time to hear us shouting until Japan supplied them with a hearing aid. You keep your tin hat on and practice your Dad's Army drill - I prefer peace.

We are discussing WARS, which could lead to WORLD WARS, rather than talking of playing happy families. Do you always lose track of the important things in a discussion ? It could turn out that Churchill may have given Clemmie a back hander or two when he'd been at the brandy but I'd prefer to stay on the subject.

We have always needed to import things including as you said food. That does not mean though, that we could not be more self sustaining if we really wanted to. The wish to eat things which are out of season in this country adds to that but, at a push, some imports could be dispensed with. If we wished to make steel without imports (as we used to do ) we could still do that, but blast furnaces would be a necessity for our raw or virgin products. We found during WW2 how vulnerable we are due to the need to import food and goods and, if other nations can subsidise their industries, then we should be able to do the same.

I'm not even prepared to mention that dope's name. I will say that he's very, very, unlike John Lennon. America was at war ( in Afghanistan ) when he was in office too but it's true that he didn't start it. It seems that I was wrong regarding how many presidents did NOT start wars - I believe there were 4.

We were NOT discussing the Yanks. We were discussing Arabs sending missiles to Israel because they are under Israeli occupation. The Americans are the most warlike nation on the planet. the reason they have to do so much defending is because they do so much attacking others. Since the day that their country was formed, the Americans have only had ONE PRESIDENT who has not taken them to war. I believe that we come second after America for the number of wars we have fought. Some very necessary - others most certainly not. I don't believe in unnecessary wars - John Lennon was right "Give peace a chance"

There is certainly not as much as there used to be since a certain poster left us and others, as a result. have toned it down a little. There most definitely are concerns to be addressed and I agree with your definition of two of the most important. In both cases unfortunately, we have a situation where neither the ruling party, nor the opposition, have clear policies to deal with the problems, and whilst we just coast along, both are growing. Both parties need to work together to tackle them, and with our electoral system, that's never going to happen.

No shortage of U turns from the Tories or haven't you noticed those ? Wonder what will be next ?

Many industries are not commercially viable but still important enough to keep going which is why most countries subsidise important industries, especially China. If you let those industries go, you are no longer self reliant and have to depend on others who can then charge whatever they like. Very similar to railways, where our government complains of having to subsidise them whilst France spends twice as much as us and Germany spends three times as much. It's what makes sense that counts.

I'm quite sure that most normal, sensible people, male or female, share Nikki-Red's view. There are far more important things for us all to worry about.

It was our governments who made all our laws in the first place so it looks like they got it wrong doesn't it ? Your bottom line says that your views on race and immigration are starting to show through again. I thought I remembered you saying that you liked foreign cuisines and enjoy them when you travel abroad in the same way as they do.

Delbow is quite correct and proving that he speaks against racism. Don't you agree with him ?

If some country sent missiles because we were occupying them, I would want to end our occupation. Everybody fights forces of occupation.

I have always said that working and earning their own keep should be a major part of the prison and punishment lifestyle,

Re- bottom paragraph (my bold): I very much agree with a lot of that report but would point out something that Nina didn't take into consideration. Prison populations are made up of more than one type of prisoner meaning that you need more than one type of solution. There are hard core prisoners, extremely violent, who are in for committing very serious crime. These types are career criminals, murderers, seniors of Organised Crime gangs, serial sexual offenders using extreme violence, etc etc. these types of people will never be rehabilitated to taking a 9 to 5 job and leading a blameless life. They are the types who, when in prison, become part of that senior hierarchy of prisoner who actually part runs the prison. They don't like work so we need to make them work and spoil their comfortable lifestyle whilst guests of HMP. Many of the prisoners will be those who have committed fairly minor non-violent offences and are more a nuisance than a threat to society. These people are the prisoners worth spending money on. Some of them will be lacking educationally, some with mental problems and learning difficulties, some who have struggled to cope with life and some who are plain bone idle. Educational / work training courses could be money well spent but this help needs to carry on for a while after release whilst they fit back into society. I don't think there could ever be a one size fits all approach but, with careful grading we could lower the prison population. Some of the results would be what National Service used to achieve.

That was disgusting but - Re-telling people what they already know is not super helpful unless you also have something to say about the reason you decided it needed re-telling.

My bold: It is of course, the fault of those who committed the crime as you say, but the incompetence of those who knew there were warning signs, also needs to be looked at and rarely is.

Typical of our well organised system of checks and safety measures. runs about as well as everything else in this country. So terrible for poor Brianna and her family to have to pay the price for official incompetence.