nohands

Of all the core cities, Sheffield still has the lowest GVA per head of population, and South Yorkshire one of the lowest in the country. Leeds has one of the highest GVA figures per head of the core cities with only Bristol higher, and has had electric services to London since 1989.

 

The question is, should rail subsidy be used to support growth or to stimulate it?

Yet more useful information from Andy C. Thanks.

Surprised that Stagecoach were not there as it will be a major problem for bus users. Presume that the tramlink will run into Hillsborough as there is little point heading for Middlewood.

How about a direct bus to town during the works?

To be honest, I don't care too much who is to blame.

This is a problem with public transport. Great at making bold claims, spending public money and not delivering.

Never have this problem with the car.

Trouble with the Health Service is that there are too many penpushers and not enough hands on staff.

However, the NHS appears not to be over managed.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/comment/debunked-myths-about-nhs-managers/5083805.article

Research by the King's Fund shows that across the UK the proportion of managers in the workplace is 15.4%, but the NHS spends 1-2%on Managers. Recent figures show just over 30,000 managers in the NHS, around 400,000 nurses, therapeutic and scientific staff and about 45000 consultant level doctors.

Will they extend the tram link from Middlewood to Hillsborough?

We already have Sheffield City Region, who have a director and a squadron of Assistant Directors. Don't know who they are directing but it sounds like they are well financed. In lieu of a mayor, who are they answerable to?

Well the results are in... Unsliven Bridge and Garden Village will retain their evening service, although the SL1 will be downgraded to a hourly service from the 28th January after 8:48pm Monday to Saturday and 5:48pm on Sundays.

 

No changes really to the 57.

 

So once again more cuts to the services around Stocksbridge, along with the recent fare increases to CityWide/TravelMaster tickets etc.

So since Stagecoach have taken over the Stocksbridge service they have cut the evening frequency from 3 buses to town, to 1 as far as the tram. And we thought First were bad.

Compared with when First provided Stocksbridge services there was the 57/58 and at one bit also an X57 or 57a I think at some point - maximum 4 buses per hour. They used old vehicles and the day/week tickets were more expensive than now. Stagecoach provide an hourly 57 and 6 buses per hour on SL1/Sl1a, so 7 per hour in total, albeit it requiring a connection a Middlewod for travel into Sheffield - but then why have buses duplicating the trams and the cost of the extra diesel and extra drivers?

No, it was not a maximum 4 per hour pre-Stagecoach. There were 4 per hour in the off peak (2x57 and 2x58), plus the 201. However in the peak there were additional 57 buses - up to every 10 minutes and a half hourly 58a. Then Stagecoach came with a high frequency service and undercut First; as soon as First pulled out Stagecoach put their fares up. However as these are the standard Stagecoach fares, it was not just as a result of Stocksbridge services.

Anyway, the business case for the tram was predicated on lower staff costs, lower fuel costs and increased attractiveness. Problems with platform ticketing led to the introduction of conductors, increasing staff costs. Stagecoach cited increased cost of electricity for splitting the tram/bus tickets some years ago. Reduced reliability has affected the attractiveness.

Overall the tram is in a mess. Substantial investment is required and at the moment it does not look, from the outside, as though that is justified.

I worked in Stocksbridge 14 years ago and at that time it was 2 buses per hour and yes they we'rnt reliable , you don't know you're born with 7 an hour as you have now .

14 years ago there were, in the off peak, 2 57s per hour and 2 58s, plus the 201 to Sheffield. In the peak hour there were additional 57s and the 58A, giving about 8-10 at the busiest times. Although they were not reliable, it was faster than the current situation.

In fairness Stagecoach Bus are doing their very best to ensure connections and to stop their buses leaving in full site of the arriving tram.

 

It is however an interesting question that given the failure to connect anyway why Stagecoach bus should reduce their service to match the tram and not keep it at the current level. perhaps there should have been a 4th option of keeping the service as it is

I think the bus side have made more effort, but for reasons already stated above, the trams are not able to connect with the bus. The idea of there being a 7 minute interchange penalty at Middlewood, when all goes to plan, shows how inefficient the change is.

After 10 years the interchange has not improved, but the alternatives have been taken away.

A few years ago, SYPTE said that they had a plan to stop the gradual service reductions; since then there have been two reductions to the evening service to Stocksbridge and now it looks like there will be further reductions to the daytime service.

[/color]Back the discussion about the bus service to Stocksbridge, Stagecoach Bus are launching a consultation about the future of the SL1/SL1A services following the announcement of the Supertram timetable change from 28 January 2018.

 

The consultation and options available are here: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/yorkshire/sl1consultationoct17

 

In short - another cut in the service, following on from the major cut backs to the 57. Down from 6 buses to 5 buses per hour - with a decision to be made to either not serve Unsliven Bridge or Garden Village in the evenings, leaving no evening service provision for which ever of these areas becomes unfortunate...

So, if they are consulting, how about having an option of re-introducing direct buses to Sheffield? Another option could be continuing to run the buses every 10 minutes, especially as the buses and trams do not connect with any regularity.

Departure times for the tram are critical as they must arrive and depart the congestion critical bit between Shalesmoor, Cathedral and Park Square roundabout junction on time as it has the potential to impact on all three (four next year) routes. The Red route trams will have a critical appointment with the Signal Box operating the railway.

One event can magnify problems across the system delaying thousands.

 

The bus has no critical impact on other routes.

 

The buses are timed to arrive at Middlewood around 7 minutes before the departure of the tram.

 

Scenarios

Bus on time. Tram on time. A 6 minute wait in the tram.

Bus 2 minutes early. Previous Tram leaves leaves on time. Annoys bus users but they will not be late. All later tram users on time.

Bus arrives late. Tram departs on time. All later tram users on time. Bus users annoyed complain to Stagecoach Bus/SYPTE.

If the Tram is running late it must leave ASAP to meet its slot in the centre. Bus users annoyed because they think its their connection going early but they wont be late.

 

Some important reasons for having trams is capacity, relability and punctuality over that of buses which are far more flexible.

You make a good point for Stagecoach running the buses through to Sheffield, or at least Hillsborough, as you have said the tram is inflexible and waiting for fare paid passengers might affect the takings of other passengers later on the route.

Or they created a much more popular service that people now use instead of the 57/58 and so the need for them has reduced?

OK, so comparing the "much more popular service" now compared with the situation before Stagecoach came along in 2007, there are now fewer buses between Stocksbridge and Sheffield in peak hours, slightly more (7v5) in the off peak and fewer in the evening and Sundays. Added to this, journey times have increased due to the interchange penalty at Middlewood and when there is disruption on the tram the SL service has difficulty.

I have given up on that bus service.

When it was introduced the TramLink had a dedicated pool of drivers who did seem to make an effort. This helped when things went wrong. Plus there was a proper service in the evening. However fares have risen faster than inflation whilst the service deteriorates.

In the end I became fed up watching the tram leave as the bus pulls into the stop at Middlewood. A direct bus service, even if only at peak times would help.

The £50k sounded like it was the cost of building out the pavements around the trees that were damaging the highway. This would involve changing kerb lines and building out the pavements around the trees so that the tree roots would not damage the road or block the pavements.

Fair enough answer

That's no attitude for this forum. Where's the hyperbole?

Sheffield people won't embrace it though, they don't like change (apart from the cash variety), they'll just be abusive to the driver demanding he accepts their money then complain about poor customer service

The idea of having a card payment system is great, but it should not be instead of cash.

Will the cashless payment system be capped, as in London?

Well done to Toby and his Colleagues on winning The Best Local Breakfast Show on the BBC Network for 2016.

 

Well deserved IMO....

I know it is not a popular view, but I think Toby is quite good. It must be difficult trying to keep it fresh 5 days a week. Imperfect but better than the others on RS.

But if the time has been paid for why does it matter who's car is in the spot?

Well that rather depends on whether the charges are to raise revenue for the council or to influence how people travel.

Looking back at the Star article, it does appear that council officers are behind this with the Councillor responsible distancing himself from the report. This raises questions about who really runs the council, the elected councillors or the professional employees?

Personally I do not see why they would want to make local centres less attractive; I know Meadowhall pays a large proportion of the council's business rates, but is that influencing their policies?

Changed then from a few years ago when there was limited parking on the left just before you turn right to the RHH. I was there at 9.29 and he moved me on saying no you can't park till 9.30.

I thought the Government (Eric Pickles when he was responsible for Local Government) instruct councils to give 5 minutes grace?

No, it isn't. Read the legislation. I have.

No, that is the requirement.

In your case the key questions are

Were there signs up when you parked. (no)

Was there a TRO covering where you parked?

Could you have reasonably been expected to know there were going to be restrictions coming into force?

I think that you may be in the wrong by the letter of the law, but that it is unreasonable to charge you a three figure sum to recover tour vehicle. After all, when you parked there was (according to your posts) nothing to suggest that restrictions were coming. The TRO will have listed so many streets over such a wide period, that coupled with the leaflet you read, would have led a reasonable person to assume that you were safe to park where you parked.

As you may have guessed, I am not legally qualified.

You could run a service with one or two vehicles, using the stretches of single track and maybe a couple of passing loops. This could terminate on the existing line near Victoria. However, it would be difficult to justify electrification or fancy platforms. Would still cost in the millions.

Maybe it is tram spotters waiting for the first tram train.

The retail offer is an odd mix. Aldi, Sports Direct and Home Bargains on the one side, Sea Salt etc on the other.

Behind the retail a new housing estate is being built. It would be like living in a sink.