lalaland

Hey, come on, be fair. It's always the cops fault, no matter what!

It does happen and although not every pursuit gets called off, it's not that rare an occurance. To be honest I think the TV shows don't do the cops any good. It shows what I consider to be quite an inaccurate portrayal of the job and often doesn't do us any favours thanks to the actions of a few of them. It's also worth remembering that these shows take months and months to make just a couple of episodes, it's not every day that a pursuit takes place and I'm sure if they showed the day to day duties of those officers that the public would soon watch something else on TV.

Thank you, it's nice to be acknowledged

It seems your answer is that is has nothing to do with the thread topic then. And in a matter of a couple of lines you show ignorance on the subject and attempt to insult police officers too. Nice.

What's that got to do with the subject of police drivers and pursuits?

I'll show you exactly what you said if it helps, Your post was misleading as the powers used by HATO are not 'police powers' as you suggest as they are not constables. I'm not disputing who can and can't direct or stop traffic, I was pointing out that despite your claim that HATO had 'police powers', they don't. They have their own set of powers. There's already confusion with HATO, who they are, what they can do etc. so I didn't want people mistaking them as part of the police from your post, I'm sorry if that upsets you as that wasn't my intention.

Or perhaps you need to consider if I was even debating anything to do with the percentage of accidents caused by speed Have another read, I'm sure you'll not see me say anything about the percentage of accidents caused by speed at all. Bleating? I think the only person on here doing that is you in your post above, one mention of excessive speed and you're off without me even typing the word accident.

That's fair enough. I however think it's a very good idea, but we can of course disagree. Probably the same that the door staff have with the clubs, if it's not provided as an additional service by the security firms that is. Door staff aren't employed by the police, they are hired through other companies by the clubs or in some cases employed directly with the clubs. I don't see why dog handlers would be any different and suspect that in cases where this sort of thing has been operated in the past it may have been under the same way. Both commit an offence, so both should be dealt with. However we have to bear in mind that it's more common for people to carry around small amounts of drugs rather than larger quantities, so by arresting these people it's not directly taking people away from catching dealers. I've arrested people in the past for having cannabis on them. I'd normally prefer to go down a street caution route, but if it's not an option due to the circumstances then the offender has to come in. It may be the case that had I have not been off the street dealing with that person that someone with a boot full of cannabis may have come along, but you have to deal with the offences as they come along and it's a lot less likely. I suppose in comparrison you could claim it's not worth arresting a shop lifter who's taken 1 CD when someone could run in to a store and sweep an entire rail of clothing in to their arms and leg it. Again both are offences, both happen and both need dealing with. I've heard of such things happening in the past and there was a rumour about a place in Sheffield a while back that had this problem (although I don't know if it was anything more than just a rumour). However it's possible to get corruption in many jobs and trades, there has to be an element of trust I suppose. There are thousands of clubs and bars in the UK, most of these hire security staff. I'm sure that in that large number there are the odd few bad apples, but that's just part of life and hopefully one day they'll get caught. However we shouldn't dismiss a good idea because of a fear of corruption when in reality adding someone to do this job wouldn't be any different to current door staff working there, they'd still have to be SIA regulated and work in the same way. Drug dogs are very effective, I think it would work very well. It would be very hard to get drugs passed a trained dog, so I'm not sure how you think that wouldn't work. There are many crimes in the UK that are displaced rather than completely wiped out, it's not always possible to wipe out crime so often it's sought to reduce or displace it. Expecting to wipe out drug problems would be unrealistic. However the suggestion was to solve or reduce drug problems in clubs and bars, it sounds like you are agreeing that this would possibly achieve that if you are suggesting it would be displaced and in that case surely this would be a good idea in protecting staff and users of those places from drugs and the problems they bring. As for forcing it to another area, people will always take and deal in illegal drugs sadly. But removing club and bars from them will tackle a large area of the problem. I'm sure if the problem moved in a big way to another area a similar solution or other methods could be used to tackle it. Some people abuse alcohol and that's legal, I am sure that people would still continue to abuse drugs regardless of their legal status. I have to admit, I wouldn't want to see illegal drugs legalised personally.

I've posted my views on the subject and quoted some of your posts, replying to the points you made. I don't think that just because one issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the other, both are problems, and this thread was started because the OP had an idea to tackle drug issues in nightclubs and similar establishments. You are of course welcome to your own opinion and to make any point you wish, but with the original topic of the thread being about sniffer dogs at nightclubs I'd say that the point relating to drug issues in nightspots is quite valid here. Another issue and one that I will not dismiss, however again I suggest that just because the alcohol fueled violence issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the drug issue that clearly exists. If you rely on the media to get an understanding of what issues are present then you may find you only get a fraction of the picture. The media tend to report on what's 'in fashion' at the time. After all you won't get as much interest in media if they continue to report on the same type of stories forever. Just because drug issues don't reach the press doesn't mean they aren't existent. I have been involved in plenty of incidents in the past that I thought would feature in the press only to find nothing at all. The reason for this? Because it wasn't pick of the day when it came to selling that particular newspaper or getting viewers for the news channel. Today's press seem to currently favour stabbings and knife crime. It's the hot topic, it sells, it creates concern and fear, so there's plenty of that being reported in the press. It's not just started all of a sudden, I've been to plenty of stabbings that never made the press, it's just that now there's a buzz for it in the press so it's appearing more and more. Give it a while and stabbings will be old hat and something else will come along that grabs the headlines. Again you are of course welcome to your own opinion, but the OP appears to be under the impression that this would be a good idea. I am also of that opinion. Some may argue that there are better things to do than put door staff on doors at clubs, I guess it comes down to personal views and priorities. I don't agree. I think this would work and I also live in Manchester, so perhaps I am equally qualified to have such a view I am interested though as to why you think it wouldn't work? Currently there are plenty of companies selling private security services, especially to nightclubs and other establishments and they appear to be doing very well for it. If they offered this as an extra service I think they'd do well. Remember that violence can occur without items detected by metal detectors. I think in some situations they are a good idea, but I don't think they are any better an idea than a sniffer dog.

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion? Private security is a very big business in this country and does have an impact on crime. Just because someone is charging for that service doesn't mean it's suddenly not preventing a crime. To be honest I'd rather that a nightclub, which is a business making money, pays for a service like this rather then it be supplied at the cost to the tax payer. As a similar example, do you realise that football clubs have to pay an amount to their local police force for the policing services provided to their match? This prevents crime and is also being paid for directly by that club. That could be one angle to looking at the problem, but there's certainly nothing wrong at all with preventing the sale and use of illegal drugs in a club. This would also be helping people. As for not harming anyone, people selling drugs in clubs can often hurt people and can those using drugs. While I don't want to jump in to the debate on the effects of each drug or the crimes associated with those that supply them or use them, I think it would be unrealistic to suggest that there is no harm caused by the use or sale of illegal drugs in a club. Any reputable club wouldn't want drug users or sellers in their property and if they were knowingly turning a blind eye to it they'd quickly find their licence under question. As for clubs not wanting to have to 'shell out extra cash', a quick google search shows that it isn't unthinkable - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7352751.stm and http://archive.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.uk/2000/1/18/744753.html so it's certainly been done before and there's no reason why it can't be done again in other places. Could be a good money maker here, get a few dog handlers on the books and hire them to cover several clubs in different areas etc.

HATO do not have police powers, they have their own powers. The are not sworn in to the office of constable and are not part of the police. I think it's good that you often get motorists slowing down from excessive speeds to a more safe speed when they see a HATO vehicle, mistaking it for a police vehicle. It works in a similar way to when motorists see a parked up paramedic vehicle at the side of the road and mistake it for a police car. If it helps reduce the number of speeding motorists then that's a good thing.

Or rather someone who knows that's not the case at all, if you'd read the whole thread before replying you'd see that's certainly not my line of thought and that I provided quite a lengthy reply explaining the reasons behind my comments. And while on that subject, there are a number of officers not in the departments you mention that are also trained to police advanced standards. While I agree that it's not all police officers, I think it was misleading for you to say that it was just those that you listed above. I wasn't trying to get this in to a peeing competition, just commenting regarding the standards of drivers in a hope to help people understand that these drivers are trained to high standards and that plenty is being done to keep the public and all those involved as safe as possible.

Don't do anything like this at all. You could easily find yourself being arrested. Stick to legal and sensible options.

If I read this right you had 3 lessons booked and a driving test, and the instructor failed to appear for all of them, completely letting you down and only giving you 30 minutes notice? Which school did you book it through? Worth mentioning so others on here can avoid this problem. If I've understood your initial paragraph above correctly it seems that you had 3 lessons plus a test booked and paid for with this person on the same day that he let you down with. If that's the case then I'd settle for nothing less than the full amount for 3 lessons plus the full test fee. It's not your fault that his car broke down or that he didn't turn up with a replacement car for you to use. If you paid for his services and he failed to provide them then surely you want your money back for those services that you've not received? This to me would suggest he's showing unwilling or lack of interest in resolving the issue, I'd be considering taking this to the next level and possibly looking at services such as http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ and certainly visiting the CAB as others have suggested.

I still think that it would be a very good idea to have sniffer dogs at the doors of clubs. This doesn't have to be operated by the police, it could be done by private security as a condition of your entry in to the club and therefore it could be funded by the club and not drain police resources. Slimsid2000, I'm sure if you were to provide this service in Sheffield or South Yorkshire that you'd have a pretty good chance of starting up a decent trade. Perhaps you should consider speaking to some licence holders, putting together a business plan, getting an SIA licence and getting some dog handlers hired?

The national standards. The ambulance service sends it's instructors to the same driver training center that we use. The ambulance service instructors are trained to the same standard that police response drivers are trained to. These instructors then return to the ambulance service and train the ambulance drivers. Police driving instructors, that train response drivers (and ambulance instructors), have to do the response course followed by a 6 week instructor course and further training. When I was on my response course it was pointed out to us by our instructor that all police officers permitted to use the emergency equipment are actually trained to a higher standard than ambulance service drivers and that only ambulance service instructors who train ambulance staff are trained to the same standards as standard response police drivers. We were also informed that if you were to leave the police and join the ambulance service you could transfer your driving qualification across with the only requirement of a 10 minute check drive to demonstrate your standard, however people leaving the ambulance service to become cops cannot transfer their driver qualifications across and must start from scratch without any driving authority at all and retrain. This is also reflected by the Institute of Advanced Motorists in their exemption list, The above quote is taken from http://www.iam.org.uk/aboutus/jointheiam.htm and shows that standard response police drivers are able to join and are exempt from their test, however only ambulance drivers qualified to an instructor level can enjoy the same benefit. Further to this, police drivers involved in pursuits are normally qualified above the Standard Response level with a minimum of the additional Initial Pursuit course or the Advanced Pursuit course. I believe that at this time it's only the police, SOCA and possibly a few other law enforcement sides of the emergency services and government that train to those standards to further improve their driving (as there's no need for other services to be pursuit trained). I'm certainly not knocking the ambulance drivers and certainly not saying they are poor drivers, far from it, they are extremely good drivers. However police drivers are trained to higher standards, especially those involved in puruits.

As with any job or trade, sadly you'll always get an idiot that ruins the reputation for the rest who work hard and keep standards up.

Police officers don't loose their jobs in cutbacks, it's normally done by natural wastage, as in they don't recruit to refill posts lost due to retirement or movement in to other areas. Police civilian staff have in the past lost their jobs due to cutbacks. If a site has been sold then would you really have a problem with the funds from that sale being used elsewhere in the public service? Surely it makes sense, if money's tight, to reallocate those funds where they are more needed? I'm not sure how you jump to the thought of a payrise here, but police pay is quite strictly governed and controlled. Officers can't just have payrises at the whim of a force. In fact it's almost the opposite. I am sure many of you will remember the governments handling of the pay dispute last year, as we approach the next pay negotiation it appears we may be heading down the same path.

The fact that a person committing a crime may not be the most responsible of people does not change that fact that if they hadn't committed the offence in the first place the use of vehicles would not have been required. The police are very responsible when it comes to driving. The police driver training is the highest standards out of all the emergency services in the UK, so the best drivers tend to be police officers. And the driving policy in constantly being reviewed and monitored (there are even more changes that came in as of 1st of August to increase the safety of everyone on the roads, sadly these cannot be put on a public forum). Each incident is handled separately and the decision on how to react isn't a blanket one, it's decided individually each time. The safety of the public is always taken in to consideration as is the safety of the officers involved and even the outcome for the person that's the cause of the pursuit. If there's even the smallest of reasons as to why a pursuit should not start or should end then it's acted on. I've been called off by comms in the past and even called a pursuit off myself when I felt it was no longer justified for me to continue with it, and this was before it became dangerous. The days of free for all chases and driving like you see on many films and TV programs is long gone, there are a hell of a lot of rules and regulations in place that are there to protect everyone. If these are broken the officer involved loses their driving authority and can face disciplinary action. On top of that, driver training has improved considerably too and the standards required to be given certain authorities has risen too. Not all police drivers can use emergency equipment and not all can pursue vehicles either. It really is taken very seriously and it's not worth doing something you shouldn't, supervision really do come down hard on you. It is unfortunate when accidents happen and unfortunately occasionally they do, however I don't think there are many that would want the emergency services to stop providing their vehicle responses, it certainly wouldn't be long before offenders realised this and took serious advantage. It would also be nice to see members of the public working with emergency service drivers. While the emergency service driver is responsible for their driving, members of the public can help by keeping alert and reacting properly when they see emergency vehicles behind them. It's amazing how many people don't see the bluelights, don't hear the sirens or just ignore them. Some people don't seem to know what to do and can make the situation worse. Obviously emergency drivers are trained to deal with this and should react accordingly, but if some people put more thought in to their driving (and road positioning when in traffic or stopped by red lights etc.) then we'd all benefit.

somethingwit, if you do actually work at CEX then you've just really let yourself, your colleagues and the whole of CEX down. What a terrible post, let's hope for your boss isn't a member of this site.

A terrible thing to happen, my condolences to his family

The water feature outside the station? I see this every time I'm in Sheffield and the last few times it looked as if the water was off and the metal had started to change colour. It's a shame, it was a good feature. Not sure why it only operated on part of that metal though, surely it would have looked better if it did it further along too. The train station is often one of the first things that people visiting the city see when they arrive, it's a shame it can't be more impressive so people are glad to have arrived in Sheffield and remember it.

Speak to the local policing team for that area and raise your concerns. If it's a regular problem then it shouldn't be too hard to get some sort of extra attention to that area added. Be careful when clearing this stuff up yourself though. You can get some nasty contaminated items littered about and I'm not just talking about needles. You'd be best to leave the removal of hazardous stuff to the council, just call them when you spot it and point out that it's in a childrens play area and needs cleaning up asap before something bad happens.

I got a letter from my bank the other day saying my mortgage rate was about to go up to over 7%, but I just laughed and binned it. I was able to get a 2 year rate of 4.25% with HSBC, so I won't be paying that ridiculous rate I think as time goes on people will start to notice a change in spending in areas such as shopping, nights out, holidays and petrol. I think the country is in for a belt tightening exercise for a while and sadly I fear that there may also be a few job losses in some industries along the way. Let's hope I'm wrong. Look back at this thread in 12 months time and see if anything has changed for the better or worse.

To be fair on Tesco, I've had plenty of photos done at that branch and they've always been decent and timely. I think there was a woman called Pat that did them in the past, not sure if she's still there, but she was friendly enough and did a good job, often happy to chat for a few moments instead of just processing you.