onewheeldave

I'd suggest 'don't feed the troll' is the best course of action here

I know it can't be passed on. There are many differences between obesity and covid- there's no vaccine for obesity, it can be cured by calorific restriction, it's not a virus, etc, etc. What they have in common is overwhelming the NHS [obesity to a much greater extent]. And many can. Especially if the levels of coercion applied during covid were applied to them. As for fat shaming- I'm not the one who thinks coercion and compulsion should be applied to modify people's behaviour. I'm simply pointing out that those many who did/do think things like compulsory/coerced vaccines and masking and lockdowns are fine for covid, on the grounds that 'covid overwhelms the NHS' and being inconsistent in not applying it to the obese. This is about the 5th time I've explained this- if you can't address the actual point that I'm actually making, then please don't bother replying, I'm not interested in your strawmen. Currently zero restrictions for non-vaccinated [covid] people giving blood. The only restrictions are time ones, for the vaccinated. https://www.transfusionguidelines.org/dsg/bm/guidelines/coronavirus-vaccination ?? You've not answered the question asked [see below]

I've actually done quite a lot in other places than here i.e. the real world. How does that matter [in relation to the point I was making]?

yes they do. I never said otherwise. I did say that the pro-orthodox narrative people have supported and called for forcing/coercing/compelling people to have to have vaccines and wear masks.

The key similarity is that obesity overwhelmes the NHS [considerably more so than covid]. A key difference is that the pro-orthodox people don't seem to wanyt to apply draconian restrictions to obesity, but very much did with covid. I didn't say obesity is a choice, I said it was more of a choice than getting covid. Also, not enjoying being a certain way, does not necessarily mean there isn't an element of choice involved in the causal mechansms which led to being it, or it's maintenance.

No, it's more of a choice. Not that that matters, what does matter is it overwhelms the NHS far more than covid ever did, so, to be consistent, those who argued and pushed for coerced vaccines, compulsory masks and a host of other draconian restrictions on civil liberties, should now be gearing up to inflict the same on obese people. They didn't 'promote' masks and vaccines, they forced them on people and supported legal coercion and compulsion.

And yet the equally, if not more so, simplistic statistics of the orthodox narrative were just accepted, and anyone who pointed out issues with them was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer and accused of being selfish and uncaring. It is fantastic that he's said schools should end compulsory masking- masks in schools are counter productive and cause far more harm that good. Sadly however, the covid measures have seriously hurt children- not just in damaging their education and ensuring that the economy they are to grow up in is even worse than it was going to be, but also those poor terminally ill children who had to die alone, their parents prevented from visiting them during the first lockdown- can you imagine what that must have been like? For God's sake- give it a long rest, stop this mindless scaremongering, please.

It's a good point. Omicron certainly isn't going to be 'overwhelming the NHS', but obesity will continue to do so [as well as being one of the factors that caused some/many of the alleged 'covid deaths' to succumb to it.] To be consistent those who supported coerced vaccinations, compulsory masking, lockdowns etc, etc should surely be preparing for an onslaught on the obese?

Why do you consider them better estimates than the FOI request? They are stats of people who died who had covid, which will obviously include people who weren't actually killed by covid. At least the FOI figures make the distinction- it's the number of people who died with covid who weren't killed by non-covid issues i.e. they actually were killed by covid.

Strange how you weren't asking such questions about the official narrative stats which didn't go into any of thoe distinctions? And worse, those of us who did bring up those kinds of distinctions were labelled by several of the pro-orthodox narrative people [not necessarily you] as 'conspiracy theorists' and 'anti-vaxxers'.

Despite the title -'Omicron: Is it too soon to lift the restrictions?' I see nothing in that article that is saying 'yes'. Interesting that at last we're getting some mainstream media acknowledgement of things we've been pointing out for well over a year- 'But, in the end, it also comes down to a judgement about what is proportionate. A trade-off has to be made between the costs of such restrictions and the benefits they bring. More than 97% of the population has antibodies, the latest Office for National Statistics data suggests. More than 15,000 people in England are in hospital with Covid, although this is not entirely what it seems as close to half of them have been admitted for something else rather than being seriously ill with the virus. For example, the Department for Education's own evidence review admitted the data on the ability of masks in classrooms to reduce the spread of the virus was inconclusive, with studies showing mixed results. What is more, their use could harm communication and learning. Meanwhile, the rise of Omicron meant the effectiveness of two vaccine doses in preventing infection has been significantly reduced, weakening the argument for Covid passes to access events. Sad that the BBC and the other mainstream media have been pushing the exact opposite to most of the above up till very recently. I suspect their main focus from this point on will be to downplay that fact very strongly, hoping that by pushing the blatantly obvious the readers will gradually forget the past 2 years of media scaremongering and misinformation.

No- deaths from COVID-19 with no other underlying causes are under 17.5k https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 [govt source]

What's the 're-definition'? Surely you're not referring to distinguishing between those killed by covid and those who died with covid? My response to one of them was-

I know, he's a retired nurse and he's not a conspiracy theorist- what do you think of the video?

This guy isn't a conspiracy theorist safe for you to watch. Enjoy.

Excess deaths are fairly meaningless unless the actual causes are known. Deaths with covid are not deaths from covid, and it is only now that some efforts are being made to make this vital distinction [eg the FOI in the uk showing only 17.5k deaths from covid]. Excess deaths also include casualties of the vicious 'measures', including for example 50,000 cancer deaths.

No, it isn't. no distortion here- https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 I'm very glad I didn't 'join the team'. The team are a bunch of selfish individuals who have been responsible for a large number of deaths. Given their propensity for censorship, suppression, imprisonment and utter disregard for civilliberties, to associate them with 'freedom' is absolutely hysterical

I believe UK yearly deaths tend to be around 400,000? True.

Somewhat disturbing that the FOI request showing that the number of covid deaths in the UK over the past 2 years is actually a bit under 17,000, which differs greatly from the ones bandied around by the official narrative, was released on 16 December 2021, well over a month ago! https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 As far as I can see, none of the mainstream media have covered it.

For those who aren't going to watch the above video, here's a link to the actual FOI response- https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 'Deaths from COVID-19 with no other underlying causes' i.e. those who actually died from covid, as opposed to with covid 'Please see below for death registrations for 2020 and 2021 (provisional) that were due to COVID-19 and were recorded without any pre-existing conditions, England and Wales. 2020: 9400 (0-64: 1549 / 65 and over: 7851) 2021 Q1: 6483 (0-64: 1560/ 65 and over: 4923) 2021 Q2: 346 (0-64: 153/ 65 and over: 193) 2021 Q3: 1142 (0-64: 512/ 65 and over: 630)' i.e. a total of 17,371 deaths from covid

Totally deluded. None of them will watch it- Talk Radio is considered to be 'right wing' so anything said on it, and anyone who appears on it is considered to be irrelavant/stupid/alt-right/conspiracy theorist/anti-vaxx. Neither will they watch the Nigel Farage video. Luckily however, this one- by Dr Jon Campbell, who has remained throughout the pandemic, a neutral voice and strong proponent of vaccines, who has addressed each issue as it arises in a balanced and evidence based manner, addresses the all-important recent FOI request which casts a disturbing light on the official statistics regarding deaths actually caused by covid. Going by the data in the above video, I'd say it's almost certain that it's a deficit i.e. the 'measures' have killed more people than they saved. We most certainly have- and been mislabelled as conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers for doing so.

To summarise- a FOI request to the Office of National Statistics revealing that a total of just over 17,000 deaths purely from covid with no other underlying causes; in a country where 700,000 people die each year. Several billion pounds spent on lockdowns, the damage to civil liberties, public mental health. The figures for those who died through not being able to access non-covid medical treatments [cancer etc] isn't known, but I can't see it being as low as 17,000. He's not asking what you would do, but what you did.

Yes. If the vaccine had been a free choice, there would never have been a problem. The coercion used in this country [unvaxxed people losing their jobs] and the legal compulsion used in other countries were very wrong.

Yes, unfortunately, despite the removal of legal compulsion, it did seem to be saying that organisations could still maintain 'measures' if they choose. IMO, it should be illegal for organisations to insist on masks or proof of vaccination. Given the virtue signalling opportunities, delusion and bureaucrats, I expect some will want to continue to impose the silly measures on people; however, I expect that organisations with competitors will quickly shed them, for the obvious reason that most customers will simply take their custom to places where they don't have to jump through stupid hoops.

Have you any theories as to the actual causal mechanisms by which masking and the other measures seems to have increased cases in those other countries? I'd forget about getting anything remotely rational from the suppressionists at the moment- they've got nothing. They were prone to mainly ad hominem attacks even before this novel demonstration of sanity from the authorities, so from now on I'm guessing they'll be throwing even more.