FormerSheff

I get what you're saying, but that doesn't change what I said about spin being a form of propaganda. People being able to use the internet to go deeper (rather than just skim the news) is good, but that's something else.

Lying by omission will also result in misleading information, so I'd say that's also just one 'device' used within propaganda.

Surely spin can also result in deliberately misleading information (which is what you've defined as propaganda). So I'd consider spin to be just one form of propaganda.

Yep, exactly . . . . Maduro said all along that if they tried to force in the Aid, he wouldn't let them . . JOHN PILGER: The War on Venezuela is Built on Lies https://consortiumnews.com/2019/02/22/john-pilger-the-war-on-venezuela-is-built-on-lies/

Yes, it will be on the news later. But at those twitter feeds, there are posts of what's happening, as close to real time as you can get. It's a good way to keep on top of what's happening, but it's also advisable to exercise a little caution, and wait for verification on some things that are reported, although the accounts I follow do try their best to be accurate in what they report. This violence and any deaths will of course play into the hands of the the US backed regime change effort, and be used to justify stronger intervention. It was clear from the start that this US "Humanitarian Aid" was really just a way of causing a confrontation and stoking up more violence. If the US really were serious about helping the Venezuelan people, they'd stop waging economic warfare on Venezuela. And they could have also just given the aid to the International Red Cross in Columbia, and asked them to distribute it. Maduro has been accepting many tonnes of aid via the Red Cross from other countries who've been giving it (Russia, Turkey, Palestine, China, Cuba and others) . https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuela-Receives-933-Tons-of-Medical-Aid-From-Allies-Abroad-20190214-0025.html The fact that the US and Brazil didn't do that with the aid, and instead wanted to make a big spectacle of driving it in in convoys, trying to break through roadblocks that Maduro has set up, says a lot about what their real intentions are here. MADURO announces that VENEZUELA breaks diplomatic relations with COLOMBIA and 24 hours for all diplomatic personnel to leave the country. https://twitter.com/AlertaNews24/status/1099384396715421696 UPDATE One of the humanitarian aid trucks has just been lit on fire on the Francisco de Paula Santander bridge between Colombia and Venezuela. Our WCK team is safe in Cúcuta and not on the bridge. Photos: https://twitter.com/WCKitchen/status/1099382713398804480 I'm hearing 4 killed, 18 injured so far, That could change and probably will

Yes, and there has been lots of violence today, which is ongoing as I write this (numerous injuries and one death reported so far) as the US "humanitarian aid" is being pushed into Venezuela, against the wishes of Maduro. I mentioned in another post that today (23 Feb) would be the day to watch, and this is turning out to be true. We'll see how the mainstream media present all that. I'm following the news as it happens, via a number Twitter feeds, who are following events live. VIDEO: Footage of clashes as Venezuelan security forces try to stop aid trucks from entering the country. -

Thanks, glad someone watched it.

An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup On the eve of another US war for oil, Abby Martin debunks the most repeated myths about Venezuela and uncovers how US sanctions are crimes against humanity with UN Investigator and Human Rights Rapporteur Alfred De Zayas.

No problem, and yes, I get the point. John Bolton's 'Troika of Tyranny' (or "Triangle of Terror", as he's also said) is just a rebranding of Bush's "Axis of Evil' anyway. Just as Pompeo's : “Either you stand with the forces of freedom, or you’re in league with Maduro and his mayhem.” Is a rebranding of Bush's: "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" , but with alliteration (Forces, Freedom, Maduro, Mayhem) for "extra effect". Thanks for the book recommendation. When you said Mark Curtis, I also remembered the documentary film maker, Adam Curtis of "The Power of Nightmares' fame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares) (Sorry OP, if this more rightly belongs in the 'propaganda' thread)

Thanks for sharing the story of Berlin Gildo, it had slipped my mind until you just reminded me. It's now the "Troika of Tyranny" (Venezuela, Nicaragua & Cuba). That's the latest slogan. Although it does have a very similar ring to it as the "Axis of Evil" (Iran, Iraq and North Korea) that Bush spoke of in the build up to the Iraq war.

Yes, but the OP makes no mention of UK participation in the airstrikes on Syria in 2018. I think that's all El Cid was doing when he mentioned that, giving a full and up to date account of UK involvement.

Not familiar with "The Cause of Ireland" will have to look for that one, thanks. But World in Action, ah yes, I remember that programme from when I was a kid, back in the 70s/early 80s. That programme's theme music will always bring back memories or cold, dark Monday nights (or was it Thursdays?) . . . 3 day weeks, power cuts, the winter of discontent and . . . . Ayatollah Khomeini! And that John Pilger quote by the way, is transcribed from this video (hence him mentioning "The bogus attacks on RT" in the quote )

This is actually the full quote from Pilger: "The BBC has the most brilliant production values, it produces the most extra ordinary natural history and drama series, but the BBC is, and has long been, the most refined propaganda service in the world. I find the double standards, these bogus attacks on RT, if you compare it with the BBC’s record of suppression. I remember calculating during the Irish war, something like 48 major BBC programmes, either banned , doctored or delayed. But around the BBC there’s this sort of cult that if you enter the BBC you immediately rise to a nirvana of impartiality and there are two sides to everything, that’s nonsense to begin with, but the BBC is an extension of the established order in this country. I don’t think that’s even controversial, it just is. It does some very fine work, but it just is and for it to claim that it isn’t and others are really subverting the British state by giving another view is just absurd."

About the BBC, definitely one of "our news outlets" : "The BBC has the most brilliant production values, it produces the most extraordinary natural history and drama series, but they have long been the most refined propaganda service in the world . . the BBC is an extension of the established order in this country. I don’t think that’s even controversial, it just is" ~ John Pilger.