petemcewan

RIP , Capt Tom.

Thirsty Relic, I don't see that there is anything wrong at all with annual cov-19 ,Flu, or Cov/Flu combined vaccinations. Vaccination is one of the greatest advances ever made in medical science. The development of mRNA vaccines is a once in a hundred years breakthrough in prophylactic medicine. Messanger RNA technology may even bring forward the day that a vaccination against HIV will become available.

Whiteowl , Just like the common cold.

Apelike. It's an ethical issue for those deciding to run a trial-in the first place- which involve a placebo. The for and against arguments push one to pick a side. For me the Utilitarian justification for invoking a placebo arm in a clinical trial. Is that it provides erroneous ethical guidance for decision making to those constructing a clinical trial. That is what I think.

Apelike. It's an ethical issue for those deciding to run a trial which involves a placebo.

Mr Silly is in charge.

https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/551

Victor Meldrew, IMO the answer to your question is Yes. The ethical principles supporting the use of placebos in clinical trials are drawn from Utilitarianism. But not everybody agrees. One can argue to doomsday for and against using placebos. My own ethical principles causes me to find Utilitarianism not very attractive. I've put a couple of links just in case you'd like to dive deeper into Moral Philosophy and its role in medicine and science. https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/55 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4778182/ The above is position that I support. At the end of the day when one is sick and in need of treatment. I would say to the: Doc/Scientist/ Researcher ,"give me the damn medicine and you take the sweetie".

There's a Challenge Trial taking place somewhere in the UK-but it seems to have fallen off the radar. A challenge trial is where you give the volunteer the virus then you give them the vaccine.

Tinfoilhat, That's exactly what happened to me. I could have sent you down there instead of me for the jab. No ID required. Name and address and DOB. Stick your arm out and you are done. So it goes.

El Cid, Thanks for the reply. That is so sad. I think we have to be wary of the tactic used by antivaxers. Anecdotal "cause-and-effect" rumours that erroneously tie a person's untimely demise to the fact they recently got a COVID-19 vaccine.

El Cid, Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated too late?

Thirsty Relic, It's not about variables. It's about having a plethora of vaccines that work. The more the better. Of course that will have the anti vaxers up in arms. Two or three vaccines is not enough-if you are going to vaccinate the world. And there's no better authority on vaccinating the world then Bill Gates. (GBBG)

What is the last thing people need during a global pandemic ? Answer: Vaccine wars. Politicians are playing a daft game which ultimately puts me and thee's life at risk. Thank goodness we have the Novavax waiting for approval.

Mister M, Back in the day there was plenty of HIV denialists. Swayne is the Cov-19 equivalent. The organisation Act Up (I was a member) came up with a slogan aimed at the denialists. "It's the virus stupid". Similarly for Swanye: "It's the virus stupid".

El Cid, Thanks for your considered reply. Only time will tells us the vaccines effectiveness in the community. I'm sincerely hoping that effective therapeutics will eventually emerge; that can be applied to treating the illnesses caused by this virus and its variants.

El Cid, The link you provided makes some interesting points. This one makes me raise an eyebrow: Is it your view that older people shouldn't trust the Cov-19 vaccines ,because the testing was "rushed" ? The link you provided is basically saying the same as the Abstract Because of the above: We are urged by our GPs to have an annual Flu vaccination-even with the Flu vaccine relatively low effectiveness. As we get older our T lymphocyte production declines. Vaccination gives us a bit of an immune boost. It's better to have some protection than none at all. IMO it's going to be the same with Covid vaccination. The mRNA vaccines appear to stimulate a CD4/CD8 cell response as well as an antibody response-which is good for older people. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2814-7 Weighing up the evidence needed to make an informed choice to have a vaccination or not .I'm going to have my second mRNA vaccination as soon as it's available. So I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I'm certainly going to follow closely whether or not over 65yrs old in Europe get vaccinated. There's no way you or I can answer that question.

El Cid, No there are not hiding it. Why would they want to hide it ? See Table 2 page 7. The effectiveness of the vaccine across age groups looks good to me. What is it you want to that cannot be determined from the Efficacy results ? How many neutralising antibodies /T cells does an eighty year old produces compared to a thirty year old ? Does a seventy year old suffer more side effects than a twenty year old ? https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/covid-19-vaccine-moderna-epar-product-information_en.pdf

Anna B, I share your sentiments.Everyday I say a prayer for humanity's deliverance from this pestilence.

El Cid. See the, "Therapeutic Indication ". https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/covid-19-vaccine-moderna (it's a bit of a read) Age range 18yrs to 94yrs . It works across that age range. Note: Just because there was less than 10% of the volunteers over 70. Doesn't mean it doesn't work for the over 70s. I'm over 70 and I've had the Pfizer. I don't intend to get Cov-19. But if I am unfortunate and catch it. I have every confidence,that it better damn well work for me.

Things we have to do to avoid a future of one pandemic after another.A tactic of rioting and looting isn't going to cut the mustard. It is going to take a pretty clued in young generation to bring it about. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/to-prevent-the-next-pandemic-end-unequal-access-to-natural-resources/

A new study by Moderna and the Vaccine Research Center at the NIAID has found that its vaccine is effective against the new virus variants, that are found in Britain and South Africa. The British variant had no effect on antibody levels, the South African mutation did, but antibody levels were still high enough to give protection. Moderna is developing a version of the vaccine aimed at the South African variant that can also be used as a booster shot a year after people receive their two doses. All they have to do is get their finger out and meet their promised vaccine targets. I hope the Pfizer vaccine does the same-and they meet their promised vaccine targets;and stop dicking about with their production facilities. Get your vaccination and stay well you all.

Thirsty Relic We know what he is saying,"follow the rues". In the link I posted( Below). He's probably been onto the Behavioural Psychologist. Who have told him,"the general public need another large dose of scary mary ". Viral load is a significant factor in shedding virus and contracting severe illness. We don't hear very much about Viral Load and the role it plays in transmission.

There's endless talk about Transmission. The ideal goal for vaccine makers is to make Sterilising Vaccines. However ,if the current Cov-19 vaccines do not have sterilising properties (that's not proven yet) all is not lost. https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-few-vaccines-prevent-infection-heres-why-thats-not-a-problem-152204