woodview

A hard brexit has an economic impact, and other forms do too, much less so. They aren't on the scale of Osbornes warnings though, and obviously that one never transpired at all. Everything we vote for has an economic impact, whether it's supporting a war in Iraq, or more funds to social services.

What I mean is it is constant legal monitoring. Just ploughing in to it needs discussion. That has happened with dna storage, snoopers charter etc. I see them as all on a theme. I guess speeding is your bug bear subject, so perhaps find it more acceptable?

What do people think to this story. People arrested pre-emptively? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-47737635 Sensible or slippery slope?

All three have been released pending further inquiries.

Yes, we cooperate and there are joint excercises under the control mentioned in the link. But, it can't be both a good idea and fantasy. If it's going to be created, it needs to be debated properly, not emerge through stealth over several years of mission creep.

I agree in making roads as safe as possible and cracking down on dangerous driving. But a gps enabled vehicle vould also automatically issue you speeding fines, quite simply. So the safety principle is great, I agree totally, but I struggle to differentiate that and snooping, dna storage etc etc that have all been hotly disputed.

It's not here at the moment, but not fantasy. There is talk about it as a nato alternative. We just have this at the moment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Military_Staff

I was also thinking of Malasia, got mixed up, in eastern provinces and on Borneo also. Not to the extent of the Brunei article though.

Ok, lets look at that handy graph. Osborne said growth would be between 3% and 6% lower immediately following a Leave vote. The vertical line shows the date of the referendum. Growth stayed stwady for about 9 months, then fell by 1% over the course of the whole following year. That is nothing like what he said. Also, what happened to his emergency budget, the housing market slump? Amazing how many tory apologists suddenly materialise and can defend clear misrepresentation. Nearly everybody knows they both lied. If you want to defend them, then that's your call. Maybe you'll begin to defend everything else they say and be complete tory boys before too long. I knew you wouldn't. You should stop wearing your Osborne t-shirt though. Maybe just keep it in a drawer, safe.

But lots of the world is moving backwards. Indonesia is also hotting up on Sharia laws.

The worst since ww2? Really? What was investment like in those recessions? Virtually put on hold? ONS says otherwise https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/july2018#foreign-direct-investment-in-2017

Osborne article from BBC news at the time: Publishing Treasury analysis , he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower. Did that happen? No. I think it's simply unbelievable that so many so called left wingers can claim a Tory run Remain campaign contained no lies. It simply is not credible.

I don't know how they quantity ' speed related' , but I do believe they are reporting it from an impartial perspective. As I said in the post, 2000 is a tragic figure. I also said, i believe in hammering speeders, particularly in built up areas where pedestrian s are present. At the same time this is a very intrusive method, and I mentioned snoopers charter, cctv, but could also talk about fimgerprint and dna storage. How do you think the topics overlap?

So, can you confirm the tories lied in their Remain campaign?

we are in growth, low unemployment and have real wage growth. It certainly isn't the worse since ww2. Unless you can explain further.

Fiddling while Rome burns.

Nicely emotive though, and helps paint a disturbing picture of a situation that is currently ok. Would you say it is more tumultous than the 2008, when we bailed the banks out to prevent them folding?

Yes, it could well have been 30% more. I didn't do a like for like for equivalent stretches, so it's a guestimate, in that ballpark.

You've gone into rant mode now. That poster you mention had posts deleted by mods, I didn't, apart from any conatining quotes of them. I've just said 2 posts back Leave lied. What more do you want? But you can't admit the Tories lied about this. If that's your view then fine, at least its clear. I get that. All I'm saying is that callers to things like that aren't good representations of the general populace. They tend to be of a certain type, regardless of their 'side' . I think it does, because lots of the options are generally acceptable to the EU. EEA membership, or a Norway deal etc are all currently used models that the EU have indicated they'd go for. The others - TMs WA , no deal brexit, or revoke A50 are also definite possibilities that don't need 27 approval.

A second referendum is a legitimate thing to campaign for, I'd agree. Also, I'd agree we are in political turmoil. However, economic turmoil isn't the worse since ww2. We are in a positive gdp growth, wage growth and low unemployment. Are you ignoring the recessions of the 70's , 80's and 90's and the financial crash in 2008? What about 12% unemployment in the 80's? Are you claiming the economic situation today is worse than those times?

You are the only one who is turning a blind eye! I am clearly saying Leave lied. Where's the blind eye? You are so wrapped up in only showing one side of the picture, you simply can't bear to admit the Tory government lied in its Remain campaign. It's clearly not worth trying to get you to say otherwise, you are too far engrained with selling an entirely one sided story. I'm not saying the people aren't normal. I'm saying the what they say and the way they say it is not normal. There's a very quick willingness to try to mock, insult, use sly ineundo to imply vile characteristics etc etc. Normal people in normal life don't do that. A tiny number might, but luckily they are encountered very infrequently.

I'd agree you use more, but not that extreme from 70 to 80 mph change. I recently drove a very long distance in Germany, autobahn, and did long stretches at 100mph+ (legal of course) and used about 25% more than 70mph. Although I have a very long legged top gear.

can you break down your idol Mr Osbornes predictions and tell us which ones happened and which ones didn't? The other non-parity is that the Leave campaign was a rag tag of independent people, the Remain campaign was a Tory government funded machine. 'Anecdote' or lots of real life experience? Do you see people speaking like they do in here in your everyday life, in person? I'd be interested to know where. It depends how you 'discuss' it. I would suggest a lot of the posters on here don't engage in a normal way. They feel empowered to say ludicrous things that they wouldn't say in everyday life face to face. That isn't normal behavior in my opinion. Of course, if you think it's ok, then you are entitled to that opinion.

In the 1960s about 8,000 people were year were killed on the roads. It's now down to about 2,000 , still a tragic number. About 1/4 of that is speed related. 6% of casualties were on motorways, about 60% on rural roads. I'm a massive believer in hammering speeding in targeted areas, especially built up ones where there is most danger of pedestrian death or injury. Motorway speeding is important, but attracts a lot of focus, disproportionate to its accident rate.

No, I've seen him take down 10 men single handed on a luxury yacht. But at some point you have to wonder if he's just a bad parent.