Ric Furrer

Antlaw, Is your brother interested in speaking with me about this roller issue? Ric

Sweatshopboy, Thank you..I'll see if I can get a friend to stop by and speak with them. Antlaw, Sounds like someone I should know...I look forward to hearing from him if he wishes to correspond with me. http://www.doorcountyforgeworks.com email is in the above website Ric Ric

I have a source for 8" round and perhaps 11" round from which to make the rolls. My "plan" is to have no more than 18" of useable roll in any one stand and can make three stands (three pair of rolls) if needed. I would like to roll 4" square on down to 1/4" using best practice for reduction from one pass to the next. For what I understand it is common to have the journals no smaller than 50%-60 of the diameter of the useful roll and to have the cuts for the shape being rolled no deeper than the journal diameter. For an 8" diameter roll I was assuming 6" diameter journal ends about 7" long and the max cut to roll a 2" flat cornered square....maybe I could get away with 2.5"...depending upon the amount of flat on the corner. Roll length has to do with what the given stock can support without deflection under maximum load...so shorter is better. What that "magic" number is I do not know. Ric

Blocked on this side of the pond by youtube for copyright issues. Channel 4 said they have not released that program on dvd and have no plans to do so and will not run me a one-off. Does anyone know the mill location or who the two/three men were feeding the mill? They had a wide range of roll cuts on the rack in the back of the video clip and a nice set in the stand...that size is about what I am interested in replicating here in my shop. Richard http://www.doorcountyforgeworks.com

Oh, I should mention that the first time I used my rolling mill I fed the tongs through. Since it was a small mill they did not exit, but sat there... daring me to free them. I shut off the power and it took a mighty wrench to loosen the screw-downs. Richard

Good to see...that program does not show in the US. I know the voice of the commentator...Blackadder yes? I'd like to get a copy of that program. So was the crucible steel done in an induction melter? Where was that rolling mill and when was this filmed? It appears that those folk can answer my question my measuring the rolls in that mill stand. Richard

I agree...I think many who did the trades need to record their memories. This has been done to some small, but dedicated degree here: http://www.iarecordings.org/productions/p1.html ---where else can you see hand made files being cut? This recording was the first time I saw such hand rolling of steel...fascinating. I think..since it is living history that it should be recorded through living people talking ad demonstrating..video is perfect for this...it allows for so much more depth than the written word..I think. Especially with the hand trades. I would think...ahem...SOMEONE..may be able to get some funding to do interviews of such workers. Grace, what are your thoughts? I worked at a museum while in college and one of the museums archivists was doing an ongoing interview series with all who wished to talk...this was collection of veterans of wars, but the main concept is the same. "A day in the life of" sort of thing. I would like to hear the words of a crucible steel teemer and crucible maker, but I fear those folk are long gone. That is largely how we lose technological history..one person at a time...slowly...as new technologies come and supplant the old. Richard

Oh Sorry to bring up a bad memory. Richard

I assume that is your version of OSHA which we have here to "look out" for the working conditions. At some point having safety features prevents the use of the tool...where that point is may be up for debate. Some guards are in place on these machines, but to make it fool proof (not damn fool proof as that is impossible..a damn fool can hurt himself walking to the Loo) would be interesting. I have a healthy respect for my two rolling mills. A forging hammer will crush a portion of you and spit you out..a rolling mill will simply eat you and turn you into lubricant. Malky...ever see a wood chipper? Richard

There seems to be several shape changes to reduce the billet faster, but in my application I would prefer to do square to square as in the videos above. Richard

Kidorry, Do you happen to know how the roll should be constructed to avoid this fold-over? Richard

"Roll Design and Mill Layout" by Ross Beynon Out of print for some time..1956 on the copy I have. It does deal with bar rolling in more detail than any other book I have seen, but not specific to square reduction per se as it rolls, as Kidorry mentions, square to diamond (98 degree or so) and back to square. Good book though. I am very interested in the square to square passes. Richard

Now that I have five postings I can show these links. Videos I have found on the subject at hand. Note the corners of the bars..or rather the center of the "V" cuts on the rolls: There are three videos on this mill Blists Hill: Richard

That would be very kind of you Grace. Richard

In the youtube videos I have seen (I can not post a link as there is a five message minimum to avoid spam) the center of the "V" cut for half the square has a flat..it is not a pointed corner. I assume this is to prevent flashing when the bar is turned 90 degrees for the next pass. It appears that his is a necessary shape for reduction rolling, but i do not understand the ratio of the flat to the overall size of the square. Richard