igli

Cor blimey, I'm a neo-pagan! (100%) when I thought I was a Sikh (58%) Thank God I'm not a Jehovah's witness! [sorry if that annoys anyone..]

Doesn't sound very PC to me, sounds reactionary.

I'm sorry but I find that attitude racist. Do you have any statistics to back up what you're saying, ie that people from are ethnic minorities are more likely to commit crime? Trust me, there's plenty of deprived white people in this country, and plenty of white criminals. They're more likely to be treated leniently or be turned a blind eye to, perhaps for cultural reasons (eg not getting each other as the posts about the shop show) as well as racism. And isn't that what insitutionalised racism is? A failure to see past differences, including perceived rude bahaviour/ surliness/ uppitiness, call it what you like, to understand the human being with whom you are supposed to be dealing professionally. (Which precludes any whinging about not being treated in exactly the way you expect..) In any event, I know loads of poor people, of all colours, who don't go out and commit crime, even though their daily lives are testament to the crimes of their so-called betters. They have pride in themselves, dignity and self-respect. So in fact to do many immigrant communities, who embody the work ethic far more than Thatcher's children could ever understand. Immigrants are skilled, motivated and resourceful. This country's workforce is rapidly diminishing and aging.. frankly we /need/ immigrants and the way we treat them, and refugees, makes me ashamed to be British.

Well, personally it's the only paper I trust to give a fair and balanced viewpoint. The way it's set up (the Scott Trust I think it's called) means that the _only_ priority for the paper is to provide independent journalism. Of course to do that, it has to stay afloat, but there is neverthelss a constitutional commitment to journalism which is sadly lacking elsewhere. IMO that should be the model for every industry, especially public-sector; so people working in education would have an organisational commitment to education (not training), people in medicine to the nation's health (not targets or profit.) I think that could also apply to private-sector, so that business-people would have a commitment to making business work for everyone, not just their shareholders. (BTW I was in the far-bottom left corner of that compass thing, ~ -7/-6 but from the site and this discussion, I'm in good company

To say it's about younger viewers is crazy, as Foxx pointed out- it's on after the watershed and they are pretty explicit the rest of the time. What, do they think younger people don't know about this stuff? More cogently, how is a young gay person growing up supposed to feel knowing that there is still some stigma imposed upon their sexuality? From my experience, the people who are the most homophobic are usually struggling with some sort of issue themselves.. Personally I don't feel so insecure about myself (well not any more that I'd feel threatened by a gay sex scene, nor any of the issues around it. Foxx: from what I've seen I can't imagine the makers gave a d*mn; they seem to be having a laugh as it is. Put it this way: I don't think they're losing any sleep about their artistic integrity

Definitely- there's strength in diversity. Sides, we're all individuals, that's why we need to look after minorities- we're all a minority of one.. PS to t020: I don't know you, so forgive me if I'm being a bit forward, but I don't think many people are interested in you proving some techie point about the quote system, not in the forum. Well all right, I'm not, then.. Sheesh, can't we keep it a little more civil?

Yeah, I went a couple of weeks ago, same sort of time, still had a queue, but it was cheap b4 11- only a couple of quid! Loads of girls, shame there's no women (I know, what do you expect at a student night.. Only went to see a couple of mates.)

I know how you feel. Thing is, whenever I do something sh*tty, it always comes back on me, prob'y cos I feel guilty and look for a payback so I can move on without it being on my head. One thing I've found helps, especially when someone is being out of order: I can walk way, and they have to carry on being that person..

Maybe it is millions. How many billions are the resources, lives and labour stolen by the British Empire worth? One thing I know: if it had happened the other way round, the WASPs would be suing for compensation and demanding emotional redress as well. You can't just rip off the rest of the world and then say "that was ages ago." It might not have been your individual action, but it is our collective responsibility. And BTW, many in this country think we take in over 20% of the world's refugees. In fact, we take less than 1/2% and we're the 4th largest economy (or something Simple truth is that none of this is going to get sorted out until we stop seeing it as them and us. We're all part of the same thing.

Personally I had no problem with Saddam being removed. I do have a problem with the Prime Minister lying to Parliament and the people. Leave alone what it's done to our standing with the ROTW. After all, what kind of credibility does Britain now have? As for Saddam being so awful, yes he was. It's just a shame that the US seems to support people like that so long as "he's our type of b*st*rd" ie there's an economic interest. Eisenhower testified to Congress in the 50s that he was given the job in Central America of "protecting US economic investments." That was the only goal of the mission, not to fight communism or any other excuse. On that basis the US has actively helped dictators for decades, supplying instruments of torture and labelling it `humanitarian aid'. Indeed, the Ba'ath party was set up in 1963 with funding from the CIA. After Hellabjah, in 1989 I worked with a Kurdish bloke- he couldn't believe the EU and US wanted to look the other way, and nor could I once he told me what had happened. The simple fact is that none of this was ever about helping anyone but the rich, who really don't need it. Meantime, people who are just getting by are sent out as cannon fodder, without even the right equipment. One point: I don't believe Blair thought there was a serious threat. If he had let those soldiers go out there so poorly equipped and they had been subject to an NBC attack, can you imagine the political backlash? Whether you think he was sincere or not, one thing he is, is a politician. And no way would he have taken /that/ chance with his power-base.

I'm sorry about your grandad, man. Don't see how it applies to anything tho; just the people at the top crapping on the people on the bottom as usual. If you don't like it, we'll whip up a fuss about all the dirty foreigners so you don't stop and think. (Classic fascist strategy, a bit like whipping up hysteria about terrorists.. cf Goebbels) Like maybe about how none of us needs to go hungry, there's plenty enough of us to sort everything out if only we didn't all want to be top of the stupid tree. C'mon mate, the fatheads have been shafting the people of this country for centuries, but that's ok. We can look down on someone else.. Funny how it's `asylum seekers' - much easier to demonise, it sounds a lot worse to say "I don't want any refugees here." When you're hurt, you lash out. A convenient scapegoat helps, but that doesn't make you right. Again, sorry about your grandda- lost mine a few years ago, and TBH took a couple of years before I was thinking straight again..

Hi, I'm a noobie, and maybe you've all moved past this post, so fair play.. Blimey what a row tho! Reminds me of arguments in the 70s (yes I'm a child of the ILEA much reviled by Thatcher et al. and personally it was a much better education than I see most kids getting nowadays) where the distinction was made between raciAList and racist. All the examples given are racialist; the point is that when it comes down to it, black (ie non-white=>politically black- we can argue that one later people are simply not in a position of power. If you think twelve youths is harsh, think how we feel when we sh*t is pushed thru our doors, followed by petrol bombs and a beating for not keeping our heads bowed, followed by the police arresting us if we don't meekly accept it. This happens- there's loads of cases documented, and those are the tip of the iceberg. No, of course that doesn't excuse any badness; sh*te is sh*te whether you're black or white. I just find it ironic that people on this board feel so threatened by a bit of talk. Is your identity that insecure that someone telling you how bad they're being treated is just too much for you, that you'd "end up being racist"? Sounds to me like you already have that in the back of your head. And how would you react if your family was harrassed, spat on and victimised in their own home? Would you be ready for reconciliation? Imagine then that you're told not to harp on cos you're boring/ alienating people.. So what if someone's a bit touchy? Why can't a black person be touchy? I'm not excusing anyone; it's just that most of you have no experience of truly being in the minority. After all, you just go to the next village and you fit in. Yet you're so up in arms about how victimised you are when for one brief moment you're not the dominant force. So having peeped out from your relatively sheltered position, you don't like the harshness, and you can't see why someone else lumps you in with your people (can't think!) so you do the same, it's how you were thinking anyway. Only now you can reassure yourself that it's all down to those crazy black folks, lefties etc.. You say that you're just speaking normally, and I'm sure you are. Maybe that guy was having a hard time, maybe his life was going crap and on top of evrything else he reacted badly. So what? Have you never done that? How about not just banging on about how you feel, but maybe giving that guy a bit of time and attention? Oh, sorry, we can only give understanding to people who look like us, anyone else has to have their actions dissected and be told how they've acted badly. Get real. We're all just people, and in any given situation power could be in any hands. That doesn't change the fact that overall (using a generalisation) white people `own' the resources, control the power structures etc. In /general/ white people are better-fed, housed and educated. Equality doesn't come into it. I hope it's getting better, and I believe it will, mainly thru the kids who've grown up hearing the right messages, even if their parents are gritting their teeth. That doesn't always last, as it's easier just to blame someone else, not to question your own when the outside world is so harsh. I understand not wanting to hear all about it etc. I just think that, no offense, we hear all about WASP lives, we have the culture stuffed down our throats - how far do you have to go to get away from American films? Sure, I can turn away (often do) but it'd be nice to feel that other issues beyond just who's shafting who (in whatever fashion could be discussed. And sorry, but if we're discussing serious issues, for a lot of non-white people that includes racism, as well as all the other stuff that goes on in life. Personally, I think of it more as a cultural thing; there are real problems with the bland one-size-fits all approach. As Public Enemy said: "NO we're not the same, cos we don't know the game." Now it's become more a thing of rich and poor. If you can't afford to buy this car, it's because you're inferior. Great culture, what a history, all down the drain. When the money's gone, and the spending ends.. God, I'm wittering! Sorry, wanted to get some stuff off my chest. (After reading the last 10 pages My 2p: differences are negative when they come between us, positive when seen as something to celebrate. (If everybody looked the same..) Later, Igli.