lalaland

Hey, come on, be fair. It's always the cops fault, no matter what!

It does happen and although not every pursuit gets called off, it's not that rare an occurance. To be honest I think the TV shows don't do the cops any good. It shows what I consider to be quite an inaccurate portrayal of the job and often doesn't do us any favours thanks to the actions of a few of them. It's also worth remembering that these shows take months and months to make just a couple of episodes, it's not every day that a pursuit takes place and I'm sure if they showed the day to day duties of those officers that the public would soon watch something else on TV.

Thank you, it's nice to be acknowledged

It seems your answer is that is has nothing to do with the thread topic then. And in a matter of a couple of lines you show ignorance on the subject and attempt to insult police officers too. Nice.

What's that got to do with the subject of police drivers and pursuits?

I'll show you exactly what you said if it helps, Your post was misleading as the powers used by HATO are not 'police powers' as you suggest as they are not constables. I'm not disputing who can and can't direct or stop traffic, I was pointing out that despite your claim that HATO had 'police powers', they don't. They have their own set of powers. There's already confusion with HATO, who they are, what they can do etc. so I didn't want people mistaking them as part of the police from your post, I'm sorry if that upsets you as that wasn't my intention.

Or perhaps you need to consider if I was even debating anything to do with the percentage of accidents caused by speed Have another read, I'm sure you'll not see me say anything about the percentage of accidents caused by speed at all. Bleating? I think the only person on here doing that is you in your post above, one mention of excessive speed and you're off without me even typing the word accident.

That's fair enough. I however think it's a very good idea, but we can of course disagree. Probably the same that the door staff have with the clubs, if it's not provided as an additional service by the security firms that is. Door staff aren't employed by the police, they are hired through other companies by the clubs or in some cases employed directly with the clubs. I don't see why dog handlers would be any different and suspect that in cases where this sort of thing has been operated in the past it may have been under the same way. Both commit an offence, so both should be dealt with. However we have to bear in mind that it's more common for people to carry around small amounts of drugs rather than larger quantities, so by arresting these people it's not directly taking people away from catching dealers. I've arrested people in the past for having cannabis on them. I'd normally prefer to go down a street caution route, but if it's not an option due to the circumstances then the offender has to come in. It may be the case that had I have not been off the street dealing with that person that someone with a boot full of cannabis may have come along, but you have to deal with the offences as they come along and it's a lot less likely. I suppose in comparrison you could claim it's not worth arresting a shop lifter who's taken 1 CD when someone could run in to a store and sweep an entire rail of clothing in to their arms and leg it. Again both are offences, both happen and both need dealing with. I've heard of such things happening in the past and there was a rumour about a place in Sheffield a while back that had this problem (although I don't know if it was anything more than just a rumour). However it's possible to get corruption in many jobs and trades, there has to be an element of trust I suppose. There are thousands of clubs and bars in the UK, most of these hire security staff. I'm sure that in that large number there are the odd few bad apples, but that's just part of life and hopefully one day they'll get caught. However we shouldn't dismiss a good idea because of a fear of corruption when in reality adding someone to do this job wouldn't be any different to current door staff working there, they'd still have to be SIA regulated and work in the same way. Drug dogs are very effective, I think it would work very well. It would be very hard to get drugs passed a trained dog, so I'm not sure how you think that wouldn't work. There are many crimes in the UK that are displaced rather than completely wiped out, it's not always possible to wipe out crime so often it's sought to reduce or displace it. Expecting to wipe out drug problems would be unrealistic. However the suggestion was to solve or reduce drug problems in clubs and bars, it sounds like you are agreeing that this would possibly achieve that if you are suggesting it would be displaced and in that case surely this would be a good idea in protecting staff and users of those places from drugs and the problems they bring. As for forcing it to another area, people will always take and deal in illegal drugs sadly. But removing club and bars from them will tackle a large area of the problem. I'm sure if the problem moved in a big way to another area a similar solution or other methods could be used to tackle it. Some people abuse alcohol and that's legal, I am sure that people would still continue to abuse drugs regardless of their legal status. I have to admit, I wouldn't want to see illegal drugs legalised personally.

I've posted my views on the subject and quoted some of your posts, replying to the points you made. I don't think that just because one issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the other, both are problems, and this thread was started because the OP had an idea to tackle drug issues in nightclubs and similar establishments. You are of course welcome to your own opinion and to make any point you wish, but with the original topic of the thread being about sniffer dogs at nightclubs I'd say that the point relating to drug issues in nightspots is quite valid here. Another issue and one that I will not dismiss, however again I suggest that just because the alcohol fueled violence issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the drug issue that clearly exists. If you rely on the media to get an understanding of what issues are present then you may find you only get a fraction of the picture. The media tend to report on what's 'in fashion' at the time. After all you won't get as much interest in media if they continue to report on the same type of stories forever. Just because drug issues don't reach the press doesn't mean they aren't existent. I have been involved in plenty of incidents in the past that I thought would feature in the press only to find nothing at all. The reason for this? Because it wasn't pick of the day when it came to selling that particular newspaper or getting viewers for the news channel. Today's press seem to currently favour stabbings and knife crime. It's the hot topic, it sells, it creates concern and fear, so there's plenty of that being reported in the press. It's not just started all of a sudden, I've been to plenty of stabbings that never made the press, it's just that now there's a buzz for it in the press so it's appearing more and more. Give it a while and stabbings will be old hat and something else will come along that grabs the headlines. Again you are of course welcome to your own opinion, but the OP appears to be under the impression that this would be a good idea. I am also of that opinion. Some may argue that there are better things to do than put door staff on doors at clubs, I guess it comes down to personal views and priorities. I don't agree. I think this would work and I also live in Manchester, so perhaps I am equally qualified to have such a view I am interested though as to why you think it wouldn't work? Currently there are plenty of companies selling private security services, especially to nightclubs and other establishments and they appear to be doing very well for it. If they offered this as an extra service I think they'd do well. Remember that violence can occur without items detected by metal detectors. I think in some situations they are a good idea, but I don't think they are any better an idea than a sniffer dog.

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion? Private security is a very big business in this country and does have an impact on crime. Just because someone is charging for that service doesn't mean it's suddenly not preventing a crime. To be honest I'd rather that a nightclub, which is a business making money, pays for a service like this rather then it be supplied at the cost to the tax payer. As a similar example, do you realise that football clubs have to pay an amount to their local police force for the policing services provided to their match? This prevents crime and is also being paid for directly by that club. That could be one angle to looking at the problem, but there's certainly nothing wrong at all with preventing the sale and use of illegal drugs in a club. This would also be helping people. As for not harming anyone, people selling drugs in clubs can often hurt people and can those using drugs. While I don't want to jump in to the debate on the effects of each drug or the crimes associated with those that supply them or use them, I think it would be unrealistic to suggest that there is no harm caused by the use or sale of illegal drugs in a club. Any reputable club wouldn't want drug users or sellers in their property and if they were knowingly turning a blind eye to it they'd quickly find their licence under question. As for clubs not wanting to have to 'shell out extra cash', a quick google search shows that it isn't unthinkable - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7352751.stm and http://archive.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.uk/2000/1/18/744753.html so it's certainly been done before and there's no reason why it can't be done again in other places. Could be a good money maker here, get a few dog handlers on the books and hire them to cover several clubs in different areas etc.

HATO do not have police powers, they have their own powers. The are not sworn in to the office of constable and are not part of the police. I think it's good that you often get motorists slowing down from excessive speeds to a more safe speed when they see a HATO vehicle, mistaking it for a police vehicle. It works in a similar way to when motorists see a parked up paramedic vehicle at the side of the road and mistake it for a police car. If it helps reduce the number of speeding motorists then that's a good thing.

Or rather someone who knows that's not the case at all, if you'd read the whole thread before replying you'd see that's certainly not my line of thought and that I provided quite a lengthy reply explaining the reasons behind my comments. And while on that subject, there are a number of officers not in the departments you mention that are also trained to police advanced standards. While I agree that it's not all police officers, I think it was misleading for you to say that it was just those that you listed above. I wasn't trying to get this in to a peeing competition, just commenting regarding the standards of drivers in a hope to help people understand that these drivers are trained to high standards and that plenty is being done to keep the public and all those involved as safe as possible.

Don't do anything like this at all. You could easily find yourself being arrested. Stick to legal and sensible options.

If I read this right you had 3 lessons booked and a driving test, and the instructor failed to appear for all of them, completely letting you down and only giving you 30 minutes notice? Which school did you book it through? Worth mentioning so others on here can avoid this problem. If I've understood your initial paragraph above correctly it seems that you had 3 lessons plus a test booked and paid for with this person on the same day that he let you down with. If that's the case then I'd settle for nothing less than the full amount for 3 lessons plus the full test fee. It's not your fault that his car broke down or that he didn't turn up with a replacement car for you to use. If you paid for his services and he failed to provide them then surely you want your money back for those services that you've not received? This to me would suggest he's showing unwilling or lack of interest in resolving the issue, I'd be considering taking this to the next level and possibly looking at services such as http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ and certainly visiting the CAB as others have suggested.

I still think that it would be a very good idea to have sniffer dogs at the doors of clubs. This doesn't have to be operated by the police, it could be done by private security as a condition of your entry in to the club and therefore it could be funded by the club and not drain police resources. Slimsid2000, I'm sure if you were to provide this service in Sheffield or South Yorkshire that you'd have a pretty good chance of starting up a decent trade. Perhaps you should consider speaking to some licence holders, putting together a business plan, getting an SIA licence and getting some dog handlers hired?