Sheffield Forum

mollie · 31-12-2004, 08:07 PM

Hi my husband got a ticket from the police yesterday for going through the bus gate on southey hill, yes i know he should not have but like dozens of others (me included) he did. Fair enough legs slapped and 30 quid down.
My query is this, the officer put southey lane on the ticket (no such place ) instead of southey hill, should he just pay up or contest it? the funny thing is he was on the way to attend to repairs at the university after a burglary, no police hanging around there then..

sccsux · 31-12-2004, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mollie
Hi my husband got a ticket from the police yesterday for going through the bus gate on southey hill, yes i know he should not have but like dozens of others (me included) he did. Fair enough legs slapped and 30 quid down.
My query is this, the officer put southey lane on the ticket (no such place ) instead of southey hill, should he just pay up or contest it? the funny thing is he was on the way to attend to repairs at the university after a burglary, no police hanging around there then..

A simular incident occured to my brother just after he had passed his motorcycle test.

He was on his way to Matlock (surprise, surprise) however, he was following our parents car!

The police stopped him for a "routine check" going out of Sheffield on Ecclesall Road and gave him a ticket for having a "loose stand". They wrote the time of offence as being something like 11:40am, when the actual time was something like 9:30am...???

spook · 01-01-2005, 03:36 PM

...............................

Lurch · 02-01-2005, 01:24 AM

You can contest it, and you'd more than likely win but for £30 I don't think I'd bother unless points were involved.

There is an amusing case similar to this, unfortunately the site it's on is temporarily down so I'll not post the link here.

spook · 02-01-2005, 12:19 PM

no, you wouldn't likely win. Trust me on this.

Lickszz · 03-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mollie
Hi my husband got a ticket from the police yesterday for going through the bus gate on southey hill, yes i know he should not have but like dozens of others (me included) he did. Fair enough legs slapped and 30 quid down.
My query is this, the officer put southey lane on the ticket (no such place ) instead of southey hill, should he just pay up or contest it? the funny thing is he was on the way to attend to repairs at the university after a burglary, no police hanging around there then..

From what is stated in your post I shall assume that the ticket issued was a Fixed Penalty Notice for contravening a Bus Lane or Sign and that this FPN was handed to the driver at the time of the offence by a uniformed police officer.

An FPN is classed as a factual document and MUST be correct in ALL instances ascertained to the offence, if there are such errors on the FPN as you point out then the "offender" has legitimate grounds to contest same via the Central Ticket Office whose address can be found on the FPN.

If it went to a magistrates court it is certainly possible that it would be dismissed out of hand - please also bear in mind that local authorities now have the "power" to also issue Penalty Charge Notices (PCN's) for these types of offences, these cannot be contested through the courts but by an adjudicator who is an independent person not connected to the local authority concerned.

It also depends on how consciences you are. If the offence was committed and the person admits to same then generally the appropriate action of course is to pay up despite the errors on the FPN.

Hope this helps, be sure to let us know how you get on if you decide to contest.

Mooseyb · 03-01-2005, 10:23 PM

Im going to disagree with this one.

Facts are clear - going through a controlled bus gate, stopped by police officers who can give evidence in Court if need be, no defence or justification. Take it to a trial and any magistrate would say that it was clear enough, and a simple mistake by the police. The fine would stand.

Similar to an indictment for murder listing a victims middle name wrong, or giving the address of a burglary slightly wrong.

Also, sending 5p too much on the cheque wont work either.

Have worked with the Courts for quite a few years now and these tactics are basically urban myths. Sorry.

mollie · 03-01-2005, 10:27 PM

Thanks Lickszz for the info you sound like you know your legal stuff, your line of work perhaps? What you said was fair enough he commited the offence and has since paid the fine. It `s just the principle ,I mean bus gates on that road, er why??
It was a uniformed officer that issued the ticket, had it been an offence that carried points he might have been tempted to contest, they should be able to get the facts correct at least.

Mooseyb · 03-01-2005, 10:33 PM

Trust me, it is my line of work, just pay it. Chances of arguing it are zero. Sorry

Lickszz · 03-01-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mollie
Thanks Lickszz for the info you sound like you know your legal stuff, your line of work perhaps? What you said was fair enough he committed the offence and has since paid the fine. It `s just the principle ,I mean bus gates on that road, er why??
It was a uniformed officer that issued the ticket, had it been an offence that carried points he might have been tempted to contest, they should be able to get the facts correct at least.

The difference with your situation is that it isn't just a clerical error it (according to what you have stated) has fundamental flaws in the facts on the penalty notice.

Well, I actually know several instances almost identical to yours which were contested and overturned for the reasons that I have stated. Granted it was in another district and I can't vouch for consistency across the board as regions could vary.

Some people relate Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) with FPNs. These are a separate issue and NIPs can be re-issued if certain details are incorrect such as name, address, date/time etc. but even these as will be invalid if details such as registration are incorrect.

Lickszz · 03-01-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mooseyb
Im going to disagree with this one.

Facts are clear - going through a controlled bus gate, stopped by police officers who can give evidence in Court if need be, no defence or justification. Take it to a trial and any magistrate would say that it was clear enough, and a simple mistake by the police. The fine would stand.

Similar to an indictment for murder listing a victims middle name wrong, or giving the address of a burglary slightly wrong.

Also, sending 5p too much on the cheque wont work either.

Have worked with the Courts for quite a few years now and these tactics are basically urban myths. Sorry.

I assure it's no urban myth.

How can the facts be correct? The officer has stated a road that seemingly doesn't exist and there is certainly no bus gate on that road. The person cannot have possibly been on this road at that time.

I think it is unlikely that any Police force would be likely to pursue this if when challenged the FPN proved to be factually incorrect. There is a large volume of paperwork that would be generated if challenged. Statements from officers concerned, a site visit by supervising officer, more statements written and the embarrassment of a screw up.

At the end of the day my feelings are that if this went to court and the clerk of the court was told the details on the ticket were factually incorrect and it could be proved beyond doubt they would advise the magistrate that there is no case to answer, but like I said it all depends on how conscientious you are.

Mooseyb · 04-01-2005, 09:46 AM

Sorry, but from experience, I just dont agree.

Yes its a factual error, but any court in the interests of justice would simply overlook that. Not one of the magistrates in Sheffield is that generous, trust me.

That said, the next fine you want to contest, feel free to instruct me and I will argue it for you...at my usual hourly rate...

Lickszz · 05-01-2005, 12:28 AM

Thank you for that most generous offer.

I usually prefer to use people whom I know will have a chance of winning though.

Mooseyb · 05-01-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lickszz
Thank you for that most generous offer.

I usually prefer to use people whom I know will have a chance of winning though.

Alternatively you could stop breaking the law

cruella · 05-01-2005, 11:08 AM

I have to fill these kind of fines out and if the ticket is incorrectly competed..what usually happens that if its not paid and the matter ends up in court, The ticket is re served with the amended details. The word of the officer is evidence enough for the magistrates.

coolwill2k · 05-01-2005, 03:15 PM

I got a fine for having my fog lights on the other month. The fact is, is that is was foggy, and as soon as i had come out of the foggy area, the police were there, parked up, waiting to get you.

I wrote a letter asking them to reconsider as my fog lights were actually off when they stopped me, thats how near to the foggy area they were. They didnt have any of it. Wrote a letter back and told me i had to pay the fine or go to court which could cost me blah blah , x amount of coutr fees, transport costs, etc.

I just payed it. Its not worth the hassle. If it was endorsable by penalty points then i think the feeling would have been different.

neeeeeeeeeek · 05-01-2005, 03:24 PM

Can't comment on your personal use of fog lights but it's good to see the police fining people for their misuse. Fog lights are really only needed in very foggy conditions and then as soon as a car comes up behind you they should be switched off. Far to many idiots turn them on in the mildest of fog or slight drizzle and keep them on for hours serving no purpose other than blinding the people in the car behind. A good bloody kicking, that's what they need.

saxon51 · 05-01-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Can't comment on your personal use of fog lights but it's good to see the police fining people for their misuse. Fog lights are really only needed in very foggy conditions and then as soon as a car comes up behind you they should be switched off. Far to many idiots turn them on in the mildest of fog or slight drizzle and keep them on for hours serving no purpose other than blinding the people in the car behind. A good bloody kicking, that's what they need.

And these bloody idiots who have the 'white light' type of headlamps (are they halogen?) so they can see further, but blind every other bugger within 200 metres. They might as well have their fog lamps on 24/7. Are they really legal? And if so....WHY?