[Teabag]

Do you think Gordon Brown has the qualities to make a good primeminister?
Should Blair make way?

[Carl_Malibu]

It's not so much a question of should, but when.
Gordon Brown has never had too much skill with speeches etc. as far as I can tell (I saw him in person a while back and was pretty bored)
He's done a hell of a lot of good for the economy, but I'm not sure if that qualifies him to run the country.
Chances are that Cameron will win the next GE anyway, so we're probably not going to see any more than a year or two with Brown as PM, though maybe in that year he'll do something fantastic (like stopping these illegal invasions) that will win the nations faith back in New Labour.

On an incidental note, as far as I know Labour is the only party of the "big three" that doesn't now have an OMOV leadership election. Strange...

[Teabag]

Concur with your opening line here

[shoeshine]

Mr. Brown has benefitted from the best Financial Legacy ever left by an outgoing Government...the Tories in 1997.

Since then, he has sold off the Nation's assets for peanuts ( a major part of our Gold Reserves at knock down prices, and other major assets), employed stealth taxes to diminish the wealth of working people, others with a hard -saved Pension Fund, and not least the ordinary working man and woman by taxing them in a way which could be called, in other parlance, "smoke and mirrors".

He, in tandem with the "redoubtable " Tony Blair have crippled this nation with Overt Tax Bills, and Covert Tax Bills which are about to totally cripple the NHS and other Institutions of State which you are not yet aware.

They are putting this nation in a more dire position than 1945, after WW2 ended...................we are living in a dream world from which we are about to awake very soon......probably 3 months after Blair takes his leave of us and disappears into the world of "THE TOTALLY RICH".

Good Luck, Gordon Brown.......when the chickens come home to roost....THEY WILL COME A'PECKING BIG STYLE..........

[Carl_Malibu]

Originally Posted by shoeshine

Mr. Brown has benefitted from the best Financial Legacy ever left by an outgoing Government...the Tories in 1997.

Since then, he has sold off the Nation's assets for peanuts ( a major part of our Gold Reserves at knock down prices, and other major assets), employed stealth taxes to diminish the wealth of working people, others with a hard -saved Pension Fund, and not least the ordinary working man and woman by taxing them in a way which could be called, in other parlance, "smoke and mirrors".

He, in tandem with the "redoubtable " Tony Blair have crippled this nation with Overt Tax Bills, and Covert Tax Bills which are about to totally cripple the NHS and other Institutions of State which you are not yet aware.

They are putting this nation in a more dire position than 1945, after WW2 ended...................we are living in a dream world from which we are about to awake very soon......probably 3 months after Blair takes his leave of us and disappears into the world of "THE TOTALLY RICH".

Good Luck, Gordon Brown.......when the chickens come home to roost....THEY WILL COME A'PECKING BIG STYLE..........

could we see some evidence for this, other than tabloid reports?

thanks

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Carl_Malibu

could we see some evidence for this, other than tabloid reports?

thanks

Ah....the tabloids.......the dumb peoples answer to everything....

I look at the tabloids on line pal... I look at the Andy Capp Cartoon everyday in The Mirror Online every day....and love it.

I look at The Sun online everyday to see the Hagar Cartoon.

The rest of the redtops I ignore.

The font of my wisdom, and my postings on here, come from life's experiences gathered over a period of 48/49 years of hard political party watching.

How long have you spent doing that, I wonder.....................?

[Carl_Malibu]

I haven't been doing that for very long, but I prefer hard fact to biased and unsubstantiated opinion. So, when you have some fact to back you apocalyptic statements up, I might start taking you seriously. THANKS

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Carl_Malibu

I haven't been doing that for very long, but I prefer hard fact to biased and unsubstantiated opinion. So, when you have some fact to back you apocalyptic statements up, I might start taking you seriously. THANKS

Life experience always counts, young man............your welcome to get as much of it as you can.............I hope you do, really I do ..............

Come back in another 20 years, if New Labour lasts that long....I give it another 3 years at the most, and see what you think then..........the best of luck with your self-delusions........it is treatable these days..........

[Jimbob1989]

Next Priminister Trust me

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Jimbob1989

Next Priminister Trust me

Silvio......what a man........recommended by Tessa (is that a Gordon Brown acronym for a "brilliant savings scheme).

Or could it be Boris (The Liverpool Doyen)............?

[Carl_Malibu]

Life experience always counts, young man............your welcome to get as much of it as you can.............I hope you do, really I do ..............

Come back in another 20 years, if New Labour lasts that long....I give it another 3 years at the most, and see what you think then..........the best of luck with your self-delusions........it is treatable these days..........

yes that post made an awful lot of sense. Please stick to the subject and show us all something that backs up what you're saying?

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Carl_Malibu

yes that post made an awful lot of sense. Please stick to the subject and show us all something that backs up what you're saying?

It's up to you to prove a positive, not up to me to prove a negative............I await your response with baited breath, but I won't hold it...unfortunately for you...........

[Carl_Malibu]

I think I already did in the other thread. These myths of the Thatcher era having a stable economy are just that; myths. I'm not going to continue this until you find me some evidence to prove otherwise. You can have a smug grin on your face about my age all you like, but until you actually provide some sort of coherent argument there's no point listening to you.

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Carl_Malibu

I think I already did in the other thread. These myths of the Thatcher era having a stable economy are just that; myths. I'm not going to continue this until you find me some evidence to prove otherwise. You can have a smug grin on your face about my age all you like, but until you actually provide some sort of coherent argument there's no point listening to you.

OK, I don't mind if you don't listen to me.

Take as long as you like.....why should I worry........your future has a lot longer to run than mine, unless you step in front of a bus...and I truly would not wish that on you at all, really, really I mean that.

You will live long enough to prove your ideas, I may not. I would ask one thing of you though..If I prove right, and you are proven wrong, please remember me as a genuine chap, and not a rabble rouser trying to pull seniority over you.

I think you are a very nice person.....and I truly wish you good fortune and a happy future.

[Teabag]

I think shoeshine confuses age with wisdom

[Jake01]

No jokes this time Shoeshine..... I totally applaud your sense and your judgement and your loyalty to free and honest speech..... and your "common sense".... well said. People can live on the lies fed to them until they run out and then they starve for more.... not you.

Carl has always had a few too many Malibu's in my book, shame isn't it when we are trying to wean teenagers off drink.... never mind He will find a nice re-hab station somewhere to doss down on.


Teabag I think you confuse wisdom with lack of knowledge and not with the gift of age..... you would serve yourself well to listen once in a while.

[Carl_Malibu]

yes Jake, a true contribution to the matter at hand, totally lacking in (fairly poor) attempts at personal insults. Are you going to constitute any form of evidence to the contrary of what has been said or are you going to get grouped with every other tory that shouts about the great Thatcherite era then niftily changes the subject when any justification is asked for?

[donkey]

Originally Posted by Teabag

I think shoeshine confuses age with wisdom

Oh come now my young tea bag. When you've been gathering nuts in May as many seasons as I, you will come to realise that caterpillars are apples.

[Longcol]

Originally Posted by shoeshine

Mr. Brown has benefitted from the best Financial Legacy ever left by an outgoing Government...the Tories in 1997.

Since then, he has sold off the Nation's assets for peanuts ( a major part of our Gold Reserves at knock down prices, and other major assets), employed stealth taxes to diminish the wealth of working people, others with a hard -saved Pension Fund, and not least the ordinary working man and woman by taxing them in a way which could be called, in other parlance, "smoke and mirrors".

He, in tandem with the "redoubtable " Tony Blair have crippled this nation with Overt Tax Bills, and Covert Tax Bills which are about to totally cripple the NHS and other Institutions of State which you are not yet aware.

They are putting this nation in a more dire position than 1945, after WW2 ended...................we are living in a dream world from which we are about to awake very soon......probably 3 months after Blair takes his leave of us and disappears into the world of "THE TOTALLY RICH".

Good Luck, Gordon Brown.......when the chickens come home to roost....THEY WILL COME A'PECKING BIG STYLE..........

I think we've been here before.

An alternative view;

The Conservatives left a very good financial position to Labour in 1997 - not doubting that.

How did thay achieve this (1979 - 1997)?

Selling the nations assets for peanuts - gas, electric, water etc privatised for well less than their actual worth.

Increasing VAT to 17.5%.

Windfall taxes on North Sea Oil ("one off" income to finance reductions in income tax still in existence) - Lawson quite understandably got out of the Chancellors job "my Golden Chancellor - quote M Thatcher" pdq.

Neglecting capital expenditure on hospitals, housing, schools, national transport infrastructure etc - most new hospitals in the country and locally (eg Hallamshire) were built or planned between 1974 and 1979.

Basically the Conservatives had maximised all sources of income but kept spending to a minimum and left any future government with a choice of either slashing public expenditure or raising tax (directly or indirectly - overt or covert - same thing). Can anybody remember a new school built in Sheffield between 1979 and 1997??

So Labour did inherit a low, but insubstainable, tax base to provide the services expected by most people in this country.

[shoeshine]

Originally Posted by Longcol

I think we've been here before.

An alternative view;

The Conservatives left a very good financial position to Labour in 1997 - not doubting that.

How did thay achieve this (1979 - 1997)?

Selling the nations assets for peanuts - gas, electric, water etc privatised for well less than their actual worth.

Increasing VAT to 17.5%.

Windfall taxes on North Sea Oil ("one off" income to finance reductions in income tax still in existence) - Lawson quite understandably got out of the Chancellors job "my Golden Chancellor - quote M Thatcher" pdq.

Neglecting capital expenditure on hospitals, housing, schools, national transport infrastructure etc - most new hospitals in the country and locally (eg Hallamshire) were built or planned between 1974 and 1979.

Basically the Conservatives had maximised all sources of income but kept spending to a minimum and left any future government with a choice of either slashing public expenditure or raising tax (directly or indirectly - overt or covert - same thing). Can anybody remember a new school built in Sheffield between 1979 and 1997??

So Labour did inherit a low, but insubstainable, tax base to provide the services expected by most people in this country.

What a rosy picture you paint of "Life under New Labour"

You are right in two respects only... 1) We have been here before with this subject, and 2) The Conservatives left a very good financial position to Labour in 1997.

I have no intention of repeating my previous assertions on similar, earlier threads..... I am not a "stuck gramophone record". Anyone interested can look them up if they so desire.
You seem happy to clog this Server up with your repeated "tosh".

From 1945 to 1997, the "Real" Labour Party was in power for only 14 years or so.
The Conservative Party was in power for 38 years or so.

I lived through the period stated above. I don't recall children suffering malnutrition under the Tories at any time, I recall generally "happy" children getting a very good grounding in Reading, Writing and Arithmetic, The Sciences, Art etc. to prepare them for life after school.

I recall quality, on the job training, being available to "ordinary" teenagers through Apprenticeship Schemes.

I recall Examinations set to "Stretch" and "Test" the capabilities of those children in school, and the same in the Technical Colleges for the apprentices and Scientific/Arts Trainees.

No "dumbing down" of examination standards then, no afternoons wandering round the streets with time off school to do "Coursework".

Lots of jobs for school-leavers were available then, and for adults too.

This is not a "rose tinted" view from someone with Alzheimer's Disease....I am not there yet, if you are wondering. These are real life facts.....take it or leave it.

VAT is a Tax on purchases, and replaced the old "Purchase Tax" System. VAT levies are a requirement of EEC (now the EU) Law.

Since 1997, we have had a "New" Labour Government......which turns it's hands to cure every social ill, and fails abysmally with everything it touches.
It is a Government without standards. It is a failed Government that has been "sussed" by the majority of people in our Nation. It is totally lacking in probity and is distrusted by our Nation's people to a level I have never seen before in my life. Without trust between Government and People it is risking the loss of Democracy itself within our Nation.

It is as far away from "Old Labour Socialism" as it can get....hence the protests so often seen now within the Parliamentary "New" Labour Government when true Socialist Labour MP's within its midst attempt to bring some sense to bear on it's Leaders.

It will not matter who follows our Orwellian Leader.....Mr. Blair.

PS I don't think I have repeated anything particularly from a previous posting of mine.