[CharlieW]

... to discuss his latest book. Shameless plug for my own event here guys, hope you don't mind too much.

Professor Andrew Kliman, world renowned economist from PACE University New York is coming to Sheffield on March 8th. He'll be discussing the topic of his latest book, 'The Failure of Capitalist Production' on a panel with Sheffield University Professor of economics, Jonathan Perraton.

The meeting will be in Jessop West, the lovely multi-coloured building off the dual carriageway near the University Tram Stop, in the Exhibition Space at 7pm.

There should also be an opportunity to purchase discount rate copies of the book.

Hope to see people there-

C

[CharlieW]

http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/282558181809655/

[callippo]

if anybody wants to see some Marxist perform on a stage, and given academic tenure and a good living by the liberal democracy the United States when dissidents like him in the Soviet Union would have been thrown into a gulag for 20 years, then go. Enjoy, even.

[Jim Graham]

Is he Professor of Hindsight Economics at PACE?

Was his last book called: The Failure of Socialist Economics In The Asian Tiger Economies (2007)?

I understand his next book will be "Succeeding on the Bandwagon of Economics Books Writing and Speaking Tours"

[CharlieW]

Wow, you guys really are cards!

The set-up is essentially a panel debate, with two well-respected leaders in their fields (Jonathan Perraton leads the way in Heteronormative Economics) going head to head over Andrew's thesis.

So if you want to see a high quality discussion over some of the economic pitfalls of capitalism, along with a free and open discussion, then feel free to come on down... even if you are possessed of some of the backwards 'all economics critical of capitalism equates to Soviet-style state socialism' views expressed above!

[ronthenekred]

Originally Posted by CharlieW

Wow, you guys really are cards!

The set-up is essentially a panel debate, with two well-respected leaders in their fields (Jonathan Perraton leads the way in Heteronormative Economics) going head to head over Andrew's thesis.

So if you want to see a high quality discussion over some of the economic pitfalls of capitalism, along with a free and open discussion, then feel free to come on down... even if you are possessed of some of the backwards 'all economics critical of capitalism equates to Soviet-style state socialism' views expressed above!

You are young to the forum..you will eventually learn.

[callippo]

Originally Posted by CharlieW

Wow, you guys really are cards!
if you want to see a high quality discussion over some of the economic pitfalls of capitalism.

I take it that somebody who thinks that there aren't any, particularly at least not when compared to the complete disaster Marxist economics is at every level, won't be allowed on stage?

[CharlieW]

errr, no? this is a university sponsored event, put on by an independent reading group in economics who Andrew happens to be in touch with. the panel is set, but if you've got questions the floor will be as free to you as anybody else.

[Chris_Sleeps]

Originally Posted by callippo

... particularly at least not when compared to the complete disaster Marxist economics is at every level

To make life really complex, Marxist economics is not the same as Marxism. The USSR experimented with a free market at one point, called the New Economic Policy - a form of state capitalism. They had this for around 8 years, until Stalin deconstructed it in favour of a planned economy.

China is in the mould of State Capitalism at the minute, or so one could argue.

[CharlieW]

and further to that, Marxist economics is arguably an analytical category rather than a defined set of economic policies... better suited for understanding capitalism than creating is own economic modelling

[callippo]

will there by a token capitalist on as part of the show?

I mean even Fox News has a token pinko, although they don't have him on all that often.

[Anna B]

The pig-headed arrogance of some of the posters on here never ceases to amaze.

They now think themselves so brilliant they know better than an academic expert without even hearing him speak....

[Bozo]

Originally Posted by Anna B

The pig-headed arrogance of some of the posters on here never ceases to amaze.

They now think themselves so brilliant they know better than an academic expert without even hearing him speak....

Its actually quite amusing though that the intolerance of critical thinking by the old Soviet regime, a regime long confined to history, is still used to justify the refusal to apply critical thinking in the West.

[epiphany]

The Soviet Union should have its own equivalent of Godwin's law. Whenever someone so much as mentions anything that smells of a critique of any aspect of capitalism (or at least the incarnation of it we have today), you can be certain that the debate will ultimately descend into something along the lines of...

...AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THE SOVIET UNION TURNED OUT.

Basically, and this may come across as patronising because it's a tad obvious, but just because you present a critique of capitalism does not mean you advocate a centrally planned economy by a monolithic state controlled by a dictatorship of so-called Marxist intellectuals.

It's worth being reminded that there exists a whole breadth of overlapping economic and social thought between the neoliberal corporate capitalism / statist communism dichotomy. This is known as a "grey area", and is often overlooked. Here's how it would appear in the form of a linear spectrum...

Black - Grey Area - White

[NorthernStar]

Don't know if anyone heard the afternoon drama 'The Great Squanderland Roof' on radio 4 today, it was a brilliant and funny take on this very subject.

It's on Iplayer now, well worth the listen.

[Phanerothyme]

Steph Flanders doing fiction again?

Did you hear her in "The Great Hargeisa Goat Bubble"?

Some people also don't twig that they themselves have accepted marxist analysis into their understanding of the world, without realising it.

It's hilarious.

[NorthernStar]

Originally Posted by epiphany

The Soviet Union should have its own equivalent of Godwin's law. Whenever someone so much as mentions anything that smells of a critique of any aspect of capitalism (or at least the incarnation of it we have today), you can be certain that the debate will ultimately descend into something along the lines of...

...AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THE SOVIET UNION TURNED OUT.

Basically, and this may come across as patronising because it's a tad obvious, but just because you present a critique of capitalism does not mean you advocate a centrally planned economy by a monolithic state controlled by a dictatorship of so-called Marxist intellectuals.

It's worth being reminded that there exists a whole breadth of overlapping economic and social thought between the neoliberal corporate capitalism / statist communism dichotomy. This is known as a "grey area", and is often overlooked. Here's how it would appear in the form of a linear spectrum...

Black - Grey Area - White

Well said and put so clearly too, but sadly I think your expecting mindless flag waving sheep to think instead of spouting regurgitated rhetoric indelibly ingrained into their very being.

[NorthernStar]

Originally Posted by Phanerothyme

Steph Flanders doing fiction again?

Did you hear her in "The Great Hargeisa Goat Bubble"?

Some people also don't twig that they themselves have accepted marxist analysis into their understanding of the world, without realising it.

It's hilarious.

No I missed it, but I've found it as a free download here though, so I'll listen to it this eve.

Thanks

[Phanerothyme]

It's very, very funny.

It's adapted from the only short story ever to be published in the FT.

[andygardener]

Some marxist plugging a pretty short book (less than 300 pages) that he's trying to shift at £60 a copy in hardback? I'll give it a miss thanks.